Offseason moves...

[flmmkrz]

Dont want the nhl section to completely die out

Flyers just made a couple sweet signings signing Timmonen and Hartnell. I think they overpaid on both of them but they've made a nice splash into fa.

TSN : NHL - Canada's Sports Leader

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

Hardly sweet signings. Way overpaid.....and 6 years each? Will they ever learn from their past mistakes of long contracts? Plus...they gave up a 1st rounder for 2 guys that would have been on the market for free in 2 weeks.

Lots of action the next couple weeks with thed draft, and FA period opening July 1st.

[flmmkrz]

Bro, I would love to see either of those guys on the canucks so I do like the signings tho I agree overpaid. You tellin me that even overpaying that leafs fans wouldn't have been happy with those signings? The 1st rounder wasn't necessary as they would've signed them anyway with that money and that length of contract most likely but not a huge loss for them as they still have their own first.

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

Bro, I would love to see either of those guys on the canucks so I do like the signings tho I agree overpaid. You tellin me that even overpaying that leafs fans wouldn't have been happy with those signings? The 1st rounder wasn't necessary as they would've signed them anyway with that money and that length of contract most likely but not a huge loss for them as they still have their own first.

No I would not want a 39 point guy signed for 4.2 million per year over a 6 year term. 25 mil? Crazy. Yes...five years ago, pre-cap...sure I woulda done it, the Leafs are rich...but not now. Hartnell is a good role player who can get 20-25 goals a year. Tucker just signed for 4 years at 3 million per year, a whopping 13 million less overall...and he is a better than Hartnell, IMO. Hartnell is making more per year than these recent forward signings of the past year or two: Cheechoo, Zetterberg, Sullivan, Murray, Afinogenov, Tucker, Gionta, Madden, Cole, Brind Amour, Justin Williams, Whitney, Langkow, Hejduk, Hemsky, Sedin twins, Andy Macdonald, Frolov, Lehtinen, and Morrow. The guy is now making Doan/Marleau/Spezza/Staal/Heatley type money, and he is a 2nd/3rd liner at best on a good team. And for 6 years? He also has a concussion history.

Timonen is a good little player...but 6.3 per year over 6? Thats top 5 in NHL defence. Only Niedermyer, Lidstrom and Chara make more I believe. Perenial Norris candidates. Timonen makes more than Pronger, LOL. Six and a half million dollar defencemen on long term deals should be a rare lucky get in the cap era...a dominant future hall of famer...not a Timonen. Believe me...if the Leafs could take back the long term 5.5 mil per deal they signed Mcabe to...they would in a second.

I know the Flyers were going to make a splash....and this could very well work out nicely....but these are only above average players at superstar wages IMO. They are locking up 10.5 million on two decent players for 6 years (an eternity...ask the GMs who signed Derien Hatcher and Khabibulin)....with a cap around 40 mil...that's crazy IMO. Add Hatcher and gagne's 9+ million, and that's half your payroll on two "very good" players, one "good" player, and one slow ****ty one. 6 year deals are dangerous in the new NHL, flm....that's really my only issue. But hey...if they can get these deals done...good on 'em. We'll see.

Interesting to see what FF thinks of it. I guess it's good to improve your skill as a last place team...but at what cost? I really thought they would be going for Drury or Briere.

:nuts:

[chickameng33]

Home Work

JML, Gotta give it up to you. It is definitely a leafs fan who just knows what is going on in Hockey. Everytime I come up I still cant get over the fact that the Hockey Section is like 15 pages long in the paper versus a blurb in the Pittsburgh Area! Even signings dont get the large press the Steelers Do. I will tell you one thing will be coming back here for advice on next years Fantasy Hockey Team!

Like your anaylsis on things
Flmz .... you got a pretty tight game as well.
Good Look!

[FlyersFan]

Hockey is just freeking out of control right now with the new salary cap and the money they are giving out like it's spare pennies tossed into the tray at the 7-11. Hockey just won't learn. They have a market crumbling in Nashville and several others that are on life support, yet they are talking about putting hockey into 2 more HOTfreekingBEDS of hockey in Vegas and Kansas freeking City??? Unfortunately hockey won't learn from its past mistakes under Bettman. The whole reason for the dang lockout i thought was to bring salaries into line with revenues. We are right back to 50M payrolls. And guess who is going to foot the bill for this....we are the ticket holders.......next year's cap should be about right where we left off 3 years ago around 55M

as far as the Flyers go. They way overpaid for everyone. But so has most of the league. I think a bigger joke is Scott Gomez getting 7+ a year or so, to be a 2nd line centerman. Paul freeking Kariya getting what he got is too much too. PHI had to do something, though. At least they didn't sign Craig Berube and Donald Brashear. Interesting trade of Pitkanen. Another typical Flyers move.....overhype a guy and then give up on him. Wonder if Pitkanen is the next Jani niinama. I think PHI made themselves better and they should be a playoff team next season, especially with the setbacks the NJD and NYGarthSnows took. One thing you get with Timmonen is something they didn't have all year, a puck carrying defenseman and somebody that can QB a PP. In all honesty, though, i don't see the Flyers winning the division and i think they are the 3rd best team in the division behind NYR and PIT. They will probably sneak into like the 6 or 7 hole and lose in the first round. One thing they did get, though, was leadership. 3 former captains in JSmith, Briere and Timmonen. That locker room needed direction and i do congratulate PHI for getting some good character guys and hard working guys in the dressing room. It will take PHI some time to gel in the beginning with all the new faces, IMO. But i like the thought process of PHI for the first time in a while. Puck carrying defenseman who can QB a PP, some speed and some freeking character guys. They are getting a Primeau quality guy in Smith i think. I think the bigger question for PHI is will these guys like Carter, Richards etc....finally step up and be great players.

and from the files of "one man's trash is another man's treasure" comes the LAK offseason. Kyle Calder who is trying to set the record for flaming out in the most places in a calendar year....Brad Stuart??, Ladislov Nagy??....great role guys if you had anyone even bordering on half way decent to put with them. Chalk up another 11th place western conference finish for the Marcel Dionnes.

[Larry]

They are getting a Primeau quality guy in Smith i think.

LOL! Primeau he's won how many cups? Primeau might be a quality guy, he just wasn't very good on skates.:bang:

[FlyersFan]

LOL! Primeau he's won how many cups? Primeau might be a quality guy, he just wasn't very good on skates.:bang:

he was better on skates than you are at returning phone calls....:beerbang:

[chickameng33]

Hockey is just freeking out of control right now with the new salary cap and the money they are giving out like it's spare pennies tossed into the tray at the 7-11. Hockey just won't learn. They have a market crumbling in Nashville and several others that are on life support, yet they are talking about putting hockey into 2 more HOTfreekingBEDS of hockey in Vegas and Kansas freeking City??? Unfortunately hockey won't learn from its past mistakes under Bettman. The whole reason for the dang lockout i thought was to bring salaries into line with revenues. We are right back to 50M payrolls. And guess who is going to foot the bill for this....we are the ticket holders.......next year's cap should be about right where we left off 3 years ago around 55M

as far as the Flyers go. They way overpaid for everyone. But so has most of the league. I think a bigger joke is Scott Gomez getting 7+ a year or so, to be a 2nd line centerman. Paul freeking Kariya getting what he got is too much too. PHI had to do something, though. At least they didn't sign Craig Berube and Donald Brashear. Interesting trade of Pitkanen. Another typical Flyers move.....overhype a guy and then give up on him. Wonder if Pitkanen is the next Jani niinama. I think PHI made themselves better and they should be a playoff team next season, especially with the setbacks the NJD and NYGarthSnows took. One thing you get with Timmonen is something they didn't have all year, a puck carrying defenseman and somebody that can QB a PP. In all honesty, though, i don't see the Flyers winning the division and i think they are the 3rd best team in the division behind NYR and PIT. They will probably sneak into like the 6 or 7 hole and lose in the first round. One thing they did get, though, was leadership. 3 former captains in JSmith, Briere and Timmonen. That locker room needed direction and i do congratulate PHI for getting some good character guys and hard working guys in the dressing room. It will take PHI some time to gel in the beginning with all the new faces, IMO. But i like the thought process of PHI for the first time in a while. Puck carrying defenseman who can QB a PP, some speed and some freeking character guys. They are getting a Primeau quality guy in Smith i think. I think the bigger question for PHI is will these guys like Carter, Richards etc....finally step up and be great players.

and from the files of "one man's trash is another man's treasure" comes the LAK offseason. Kyle Calder who is trying to set the record for flaming out in the most places in a calendar year....Brad Stuart??, Ladislov Nagy??....great role guys if you had anyone even bordering on half way decent to put with them. Chalk up another 11th place western conference finish for the Marcel Dionnes.

Good point..... I agree in the point that bettmen isnt making good decisions with winning cities for hockey teams!! I mean come on if it wont last in Quebec you are telling me KC (who has no good major league teams to mention of (sorry LJ)) that they are going to make the league better. Now as far as to many people getting over paid ,...... You are one hundred percent correct. You have teams that are going to say WTF did we give gomez 7+ a year for, as you so correctly put as a second line center. I hope that the league realizes that jacking things up every year an extra 3-5 million will ruin things again as well. I mean Detriot, Montreal, and Toronto can only supporte the likes of Nashville, Colombus, and other sinking ships (and heck almost the Penguins) for so long before we are sitting around waiting for someone to give!? IMO I am sicking of missing hockey, sick of the turmoil the league puts fans through (at least in Pittsburgh) and am ready for just the fun of the sport...... Playing Hockey!!!

Anyway I look at it I am excited for the Atlantic and the Eastern Conference to flex there muscle and show where the real hockey fans, and games are!!!!

:cheery:

[FlyersFan]

LOL! Primeau he's won how many cups? Primeau might be a quality guy, he just wasn't very good on skates.:bang:

seriously, though, i know you don't like Primeau....but to say he wasn't good on skates is just dumb. The guy was a great role player for PHI. He killed penalties, he was probably the hardest working Flyer and he was a great dressing room guy. You have 20 guys on a hockey team. You don't want/need all superstars. If you look at a good number of teams who won the cup, it was the Primeau type guys who put them over the edge. You would have won NOTHING without Maltby, Draper, Mccarty etc.. The Ducks wouldn't have won this year without Pahlsson and Neidermeyer (Rob). The year Dallas won the cup in 1999, they had one of the best grind lines in hockey in Keane, Carboneau and Verbeek. John Madden has been huge for the Devils success. That is the type of player Primeau was. And to say he had no value is just a dumb comment, no matter how much you don't like the guy. You need that component to a hockey team to win...flat out bottom line. And he was one of the best energy guys in the league and he was a heck of a penalty killer.

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

He was serious about Primeau? I thought it was just something you guys had with busting each others balls about each others teams. The guy was a top, 2-way player for years. He hit, fought, was responsible defensively, and was also good for 20+ goals a year. He was also a captain, well-respected league wide, and a good leader. Great career, which was unfortunately cut too short.

He also played for the Canadian Olympic Team in Nagano...not exactly an easy team to make (ask Mark Messier). He also made the 96 Canadian World Cup team. You have to be good on skates to make those 2 teams...2 of the best ever assembled.

[FlyersFan]

Larry doesn't like Primeau because he thinks he was a waste of a pick for the Red Wings. I agree JML....he was one of the best 2-way players in the game especially late in his career. It is really hard to find complete hockey players in the game these days. Guys who can PK, score some goals and play well defensively and do something on the PP. It was a complete indictment on how good he was when PHI was basically "hoping" him back into the lineup 2 years ago on a day by day basis.

and i would say that those 2 teams Canada had were pretty good, but didn't hold a candle to my Fantasy team that captured the title last year.....

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

I'd say the Wings did pretty well that draft with Keith....obviously Jagr was the steal...but Primeau would probably be the 3rd best player to come out of the top 15 that year behind JJ and Nolan. Waste of a pick? Check out the Leafs gem at 10! Or the Islanders at 6!

Primeau also landed the Wings Shanahan in a trade in 1997...and that turned out pretty well....Shanny was Stevie Y's right hand man helping the Wings win 3 cups over 10 years! I'd be praising the Primeau legacy if I was Larry.


1 Quebec - Owen Nolan
2 Vancouver - Petr Nedved
3 Detroit - Keith Primeau
4 Philadelphia - Mike Ricci
5 Pittsburgh - Jaromir Jagr
6 NY Islanders - Scott Scissons
7 Los Angeles - Darryl Sydor
8 Minnesota - Derian Hatcher
9 Washington - John Slaney
10 Toronto - Drake Berehowsky
11 Calgary - Trevor Kidd
12 Mtl. Canadiens - Turner Stevenson
13 NY Rangers - Michael Stewart
14 Buffalo - Brad May
15 Hartford - Mark Greig

[chickameng33]

I'd say the Wings did pretty well that draft with Keith....obviously Jagr was the steal...but Primeau would probably be the 3rd best player to come out of the top 15 that year behind JJ and Nolan. Waste of a pick? Check out the Leafs gem at 10! Or the Islanders at 6!

Primeau also landed the Wings Shanahan in a trade in 1997...and that turned out pretty well....Shanny was Stevie Y's right hand man helping the Wings win 3 cups over 10 years! I'd be praising the Primeau legacy if I was Larry.


1 Quebec - Owen Nolan
2 Vancouver - Petr Nedved
3 Detroit - Keith Primeau
4 Philadelphia - Mike Ricci
5 Pittsburgh - Jaromir Jagr
6 NY Islanders - Scott Scissons
7 Los Angeles - Darryl Sydor
8 Minnesota - Derian Hatcher
9 Washington - John Slaney
10 Toronto - Drake Berehowsky
11 Calgary - Trevor Kidd
12 Mtl. Canadiens - Turner Stevenson
13 NY Rangers - Michael Stewart
14 Buffalo - Brad May
15 Hartford - Mark Greig

I think we can all agree on one thing.... Owen Nolan was an awesome first pick LOL! :nuts:

[flmmkrz]

I think we can all agree on one thing.... Owen Nolan was an awesome first pick LOL! :nuts:

fawk Nolan was a steal compared to our Nedved at 2nd