The Economy

[Skinsfan]

Very good points, skins, fish.

Re: the mortgage mess. I for one am about personal responsibility and accountability. Those folks who had no business getting themselves into an ARM that was set to adjust and either didn't care or didn't bother to actually understand what they were signing are now having to pay the consequences. That's just a fact and they'll have to deal with it.

Thanks to all of these people, the middle class looking to buy a single family home are priced out of the market. I actually hope the market corrects another 30% or so downward. The run up was ridiculous.

I'm flabbergasted that more folks don't stand up and say that - all we hear now is how the government is going to step in and bail these people out. Why? Because they were either greedy (buy and flip mentality) or asleep at the wheel for not understanding what they were doing? I think that's garbage, and leave my taxes out of a bailout, please.

Life is all about choices....and then dealing with the consequences of those choices.

Not sure if i can agree with this.... most of the people that bought more than they could afford were doing so because it was basically a once in a lifetime opportunity.... not to mention that every media outlet was telling them that prices were going to go up FOREVER! You can hardly blame people for listening to the hysteria (it's human nature to do so... financial bubbles have existed for hundreds of years... no one blamed investors for buying at the top of the tech bubble in 2000).

Instead, we should point the finger at the banks and other institutions that encouraged such recklessness. What about the CDS and these other financial instruments designed to float risk around and provide more liquidity?

As for a gov't bailout.... it is good for everyone, as weird as it seems.... it will stabilize prizes, stabilize interest rates, and prevent entire neighborhoods from being run down due to neglect.

[beermantm]

why delete my post? Just disagree if you like but to flat out delete is bull****!

[Daws1089]

:thumbs: I am retired, and every time I go out, I run into "rush hour" type traffic. I am referring to late morning early afternoon times. Wtf I ask myself? Dont these people work? Are they retired too? Are they the people bitching about the fuel prices? **** that, get out of the SUV, get a hybrid, ride the bus, or plan ahead and get your goods for the week.
Everytime you fire that vehicle up, it burns fuel.
Stop making those useless trips for bread, milk, or whatever, stock up! Same goes when you buy gas, Fill it up!!! The more unecessary trips you make, the more fuel you will use!
Drive less, the price increase wont affect you, so you can stop Bitching! :drunk:

i'm the same way and couldn't agree more HD

[beermantm]

Article

The national security of the United States of America is tied first and foremost to our energy requirements. These requirements MUST be independent of all foreign entanglements, they must be purely American. There is no legitimate reason why Americans should be paying $3.00 to $3.50 at the pump for regular gasoline while Corporate Oil giants are reaping billions of dollars in pure profits. This simply should not be. It is tantamount to an economic rape of the American consumer and our role in the national economy.

Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, the Gulf of Mexico are states which produce a small fraction of our total oil production capability. American reliance on foreign oil imports would end very quickly if our government determined it truly wanted to become energy independent - if YOU really wanted the U.S. to be energy independent. Let's check some quick facts, and then you sound off on how you think we can get the government to do what's best for America.
There are huge reserves in ANWR, according to the U.S. Department of the Interior there are more than 10 billion barrels that could be recovered for consumption and placement into the national strategic reserve. ANWR was set aside for this purpose by a Carter-era Democrat-controlled Congress, but we have yet to seriously tap into the ANWR reserves.
Then there are the American oil shale (kerogen) reserves, on the order of 2,500 gigabarrels, which is the largest known reserve of its kind in the world, enough to power the economy well into the 22nd Century.

[NevadaJay]

beerman - educate me please ( I'm not up to surfing to find the answers right now). Where are these locations of all of these reserves? Are they located on US soil?

[beermantm]

beerman - educate me please ( I'm not up to surfing to find the answers right now). Where are these locations of all of these reserves? Are they located on US soil?

http://www.predictem.com/forums/politics-government-religion-world-events-forum/21781-bakken-oil-field-oil-find-trumps-saudis-biggest-oil-field.html

[Q-Unit]

Same goes when you buy gas, Fill it up!!! The more unecessary trips you make, the more fuel you will use!
Drive less, the price increase wont affect you, so you can stop Bitching! :drunk:

I agree. Somewhat. The more unnecessary tripe you make, the more fuel you use, the more you use you car, the fatter your fatass will become hence the often overlooked epidemic of fatass Americans and (gasp!) rising healthcare costs, people wasting money on pills to lose weight, fast weight loss equipment that walking would be still better in terms of cost and health, more cases of diabetes, heart problems, knee problems from supporting that weight, etc...

but filling up is somewhat unnecessary IMO. Gas evaporates, and filling up, leaving that **** in your garage when you don't use it as much as you need to is a waste of money. Plus the heavier your car, the less fuel efficient it is, imagine how much 15-20 gallons of gas weighs.

but thats personal preference, not something THAT important, personally I don't fill up to the line anymore unless I'm driving a long distance. I've tracked this the last two months.

I drive a normal Honda Civic, its a 98 model so its not "advanced" in terms of todays "efficient" fuel economy cars, but it gets 35 mpg highway, 29 city easy.

and before even with high gas, I would fill up maybe twice to 3 times a month this is for someone who drives 7 miles to work and 7 miles back and occasionally takes a small trip to another town 40 miles away. When I did that, I paid a total of 75-80 bucks a month!

Now that I don't fill up the tank, instead I do 2 gallons/5-7 bucks at a time.

that means I fill up twice a week now instead of 3 times a month. My gas is now about 40-50 bucks a month, and thats NOW when I'm paying $3.30 a gallon instead of $2.80 last year when I was doing the fill the whole tank deal.

sure its only what 30 bucks and you waste more time (not that much) running around getting gas, but 30 bucks pays my water bill.

just personal preference!

[homedawg]

I agree. Somewhat. The more unnecessary tripe you make, the more fuel you use, the more you use you car, the fatter your fatass will become hence the often overlooked epidemic of fatass Americans and (gasp!) rising healthcare costs, people wasting money on pills to lose weight, fast weight loss equipment that walking would be still better in terms of cost and health, more cases of diabetes, heart problems, knee problems from supporting that weight, etc...

but filling up is somewhat unnecessary IMO. Gas evaporates, and filling up, leaving that **** in your garage when you don't use it as much as you need to is a waste of money. Plus the heavier your car, the less fuel efficient it is, imagine how much 15-20 gallons of gas weighs.

but thats personal preference, not something THAT important, personally I don't fill up to the line anymore unless I'm driving a long distance. I've tracked this the last two months.

I drive a normal Honda Civic, its a 98 model so its not "advanced" in terms of todays "efficient" fuel economy cars, but it gets 35 mpg highway, 29 city easy.

and before even with high gas, I would fill up maybe twice to 3 times a month this is for someone who drives 7 miles to work and 7 miles back and occasionally takes a small trip to another town 40 miles away. When I did that, I paid a total of 75-80 bucks a month!

Now that I don't fill up the tank, instead I do 2 gallons/5-7 bucks at a time.

that means I fill up twice a week now instead of 3 times a month. My gas is now about 40-50 bucks a month, and thats NOW when I'm paying $3.30 a gallon instead of $2.80 last year when I was doing the fill the whole tank deal.

sure its only what 30 bucks and you waste more time (not that much) running around getting gas, but 30 bucks pays my water bill.

just personal preference!

I cant believe I took the time to read this crap. :bang:

Gas evaporates? Put a cap on it!:boog:
weight of gas, lower fuel economy? Take your 3million watt sound system, and all the extra crap you carry around out of the car!
People drive around lookin' for the cheapest price on gas, and will wait to get to the pump, and wait to get out of the station. in the meantime, you are burning fuel!
Besides, the best thing on the fuel pump, is to keep it covered in fuel. Have you ever had a fuel pump gone bad on you?
Keep up with the maintenance, change filters, clean the injectors, & you will get your premium fuel economy.
My original point was, DON'T DRIVE AS MUCH! :thumbs:

[homedawg]

besides your civic only holds 12gallons= 96lbs full.
Clean out the car, and lose a few pounds, then you can fill it up, and save $$$$ :beer2:

[beermantm]

I agree. Somewhat. The more unnecessary tripe you make, the more fuel you use, the more you use you car, the fatter your fatass will become hence the often overlooked epidemic of fatass Americans and (gasp!) rising healthcare costs, people wasting money on pills to lose weight, fast weight loss equipment that walking would be still better in terms of cost and health, more cases of diabetes, heart problems, knee problems from supporting that weight, etc...

but filling up is somewhat unnecessary IMO. Gas evaporates, and filling up, leaving that **** in your garage when you don't use it as much as you need to is a waste of money. Plus the heavier your car, the less fuel efficient it is, imagine how much 15-20 gallons of gas weighs.

but thats personal preference, not something THAT important, personally I don't fill up to the line anymore unless I'm driving a long distance. I've tracked this the last two months.

I drive a normal Honda Civic, its a 98 model so its not "advanced" in terms of todays "efficient" fuel economy cars, but it gets 35 mpg highway, 29 city easy.

and before even with high gas, I would fill up maybe twice to 3 times a month this is for someone who drives 7 miles to work and 7 miles back and occasionally takes a small trip to another town 40 miles away. When I did that, I paid a total of 75-80 bucks a month!

Now that I don't fill up the tank, instead I do 2 gallons/5-7 bucks at a time.

that means I fill up twice a week now instead of 3 times a month. My gas is now about 40-50 bucks a month, and thats NOW when I'm paying $3.30 a gallon instead of $2.80 last year when I was doing the fill the whole tank deal.

sure its only what 30 bucks and you waste more time (not that much) running around getting gas, but 30 bucks pays my water bill.

just personal preference!

Gas does evaporate and that is exactly the reason you should keep a full tank. A full tank leaves less air and then the gas can not evaporate. Also like homedawg said the fuel pump is better off also keeping the tank full. Full tank equals better gas mileage and little if any evaporation.

[homedawg]

Gas does evaporate and that is exactly the reason you should keep a full tank. A full tank leaves less air and then the gas can not evaporate.

:thumbs: The amount of evaporation is far less then he was making it appear.

[homedawg]

An evaporative emissions system is generally designed to route fuel vapors from the fuel tank into a carbon filter inside the canister. The canister is then routed into the engine intake where the vapors are merged with the normal fuel intake and burned in the cylinders.

[Q-Unit]

this is the last time I try to act like a know it all :beer2:

yes in a closed system, gas evaporation will be minimal. Could have used better wording. Point is, yes if you don't keep up with you car, the amount of unnecessary trips you take, etc.. Did not intend to point out that that was the only viable reason gas is wasted. But also important is when, especially when its night or morning. The car may be a closed system, but from the pump to your car isn't airtight, if one pumps in nominal times of the day, this results in less evaporation of gasoline as you pump. Gas pumps measure volume of gasoline, not the density of fuel concentration, and gas is most dense during these times.

I can't ignore the difference monetarily I see when I stopped filling up and instead fill only what I know I will need for a given week, maybe its mainly because I only take the car out to work, and when I run errands I do it all at once even when I head to the gym.

My car's a 98, has 170k miles on it, I do keep up with it, and theres nothing in it except for a basketball and some autoshades. I'm not cool enough for a 3 million watt sound system, after ten years it still runs great and probably for another ten years since I'm freaking cheap. and I could use some more weight rather than lose what chicken arms flap from my shoulders

Besides, commercial airlines don't fill up why should we? LOL yeah its slightly different as its somewhat safer not to carry a tank-full of explosive substance in a tinderbox 10,000 feet in the air.

[BoilerBacker]

As for a gov't bailout.... it is good for everyone, as weird as it seems.... it will stabilize prizes, stabilize interest rates, and prevent entire neighborhoods from being run down due to neglect.

Skins:

I agree with 99% of what you said except for this. Main reason I am against a bailout....I am tired of bailing people out for freaking everything, whether it is because they did not leave New Orleans or they live in a flood plain or they are too stupid to balance a personal budget. All that results is more bailouts in the future. I am not big on bailing out banks either.... let them die like crappy airlines do. (saying this, I do understand that this could be very detrimental to the economy so there has to be some heavy thinking here....)

Oil is very high due to 3 things...

1. China and India (adding lots of demand)

2. US and OPEC not drilling for more.

3. US dollar stinks. Oil in Europe has not gone up nearly as much as here, due to the weakness in the dollar.

[Skinsfan]

BB:

I understand what you are saying.... from a moral standard point of view... but regarding the banks... they are heavily dependant upon each other (all these Credit-Default-Swaps and other financial mechanisms would break down if one bank fell)... they hedge their risks with each other... if one falls, then many other banks have billions of un-protected assets out there because their hedges are now bankrupt.... the net effect would be the banking industry would start selling off these newly unhedged assets to get their risk profile in line.... that sell off would most likely destroy our economy.