Mets....

[Stifler's Mom]

Glavine sucked yesterday, but I think that the fact that the Mets only scored 1 run the whole game could have also been a contributing factor to their loss.

Jose Reyes pretty much sucked down the stretch in September as well, and Mets fans love him (right?).

There was a whole lot more wrong there than Tom Glavine sucking ass his last couple starts. The suck ass bullpen for starters that blew how many leads in September, and big ones....to teams like Washington. No excuse.

The Mets were far from deserving of a playoff spot long before yesterday....especially seeings as how the Phillies beat them the last 7 straight.

The right team got in, and the Mets have no one person to point the finger at. There were just way too many that stank when it counted to put the blame on one person.

[CuseFan10]

if willie is back next year i will not go to any games

the mets were winning in spite of willie, the guy is clueless when it comes to ingame management and you could not have said better cuse with the cliche speaking that **** is a joke, and how they let it boil down to HUMBER getting a start with 5 games left is rediculous. we only had one banged up pitcher in el duque but pelfry had already replaced him. willie and mota can take their ****in love affair elseware. there are hundreds of situations i can name where randolph left me baffled, for a guy that has been around baseball for his whole life it's amazing how many wierd decisions he makes.

are we stuck with delgado next year you think cuse? they should trade him to AL and pay most of his salary. i cant watch another season of that.

i think alou and milledge should hold down the OF again and we need a real clean up hitter, i dont know how to get one but we need a monster in the 4th spot, and have beltran and alou 56, wright was amazing this year, .360 average after all star break

i think we should go after santana real hard. the staff needs an innings eater badly so maybe even livan hernandez could be an asset. i wouldnt trade milledge in the deal for santana tho. i'm excited to see how he does in a full year next year i tihnk he's going to be a force soon.

we need to resign catillo and omar owes it to us to get an 8th inning pitcher that can close if wagner struggles.

so santana, cleanup hitting monster, shut down reliever is what we need but the first order of business is to fire willie so he can be the yankees batboy.

B- I know you're a good Met fan and all but if you won't trade Milledge to get Santana than you are off your rocker. I'll trade anyone (except David Wright) to get Santana. Johan Santana in the National League would have a legit shot at re-writing record books. I haven't heard Minaya speak yet, I will today on the radio and will get the papers and such. Omar Minaya and Willie Randolph do NOT get along. They treated Willie like **** by giving him a contract that was so minimal and then didn't allow him to pick any of his coaches except for one - and that coach, Rick Down, has since been fired. Willie never wanted Julio Franco on the team either, and there was an assumed trade off that when Down was fired, Willie would only accept it if Franco was gone. I'm hoping that animosity leads Omar to fire him... hoping. Will it happen? I honestly don't think so. Scuttlebutt around Shea is that the team doesn't like Willie either. LoDuca, who will be gone, can't stand him and thinks he's a pansy. The Latin Americans reportedly don't get along with him either, and down the stretch if you watched games it really seemed like they didn't listen to him (Reyes and Chavez stealing 3rd base at horrific times is one easy example). Reyes was given the red light one game and stole anyway and got thrown out. I said since he was hired and we watched him for a couple months that his mis-managing of the bullpen was mind-boggling and that his overall sense of the game and when to make decisions was lacking. David Newhan pinch hit the other night? Why? The bench is 15 people deep in September. Shawn Green was hitting almost .400 all September and Willie still benches him against almost all lefties for rookie, piece of **** Milledge? Why? What has Milledge ever earned accept a bad reputation which he backed up by acting like a jackass on Saturday afternoon?

As for the team - The infield next year is going to be the same assuming Castillo wants to be here and doesn't want some insane contract. He is a solid two hitter, still has some speed when healthy and has a great glove which they need. Reyes and Wright ain't going anywhere and neither is Delgado. Something was clearly wrong with him this year and he still drove in almost runs. Beltran is the CF and I think they'll bring Alou back because they have the luxury of having Gomez and Chavez to play when Alou sits out 60 games like he always does. Green is gone and LoDuca is gone. I think they need to trade Milledge and get a bat for RF but we shall see. Catcher who knows who they'll bring in? Word is they want Pudge Rodriguez, but I can't see him leaving Detroit. The staff will be Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque has one year left, and they will bring in a second starter type arm I would guess. Omar hopefully will empty the cupboard for Johan too but he has a man crush on Carlos Gomez (even though they another kid whose better than him and just as fast right behind him named Fernando Martinez). The bullpen, Wagner is back, Sanchez is healthy (hopefully), Heilman is gone I'd guess even though I like him, Schoenweiss is here cause his salary is a joke, Mota I hope they cut (**** him),Burgos will be back if healthy, Smith will be back, Sele gone, Feliciano back and he has to bring in 2 arms somehow.

Minaya needs some blame too because he made some bad deals (Bannister for Burgos, Royce Ring and another good arm for Ben Johnson, and the Marlins deal where they lost Lindstrom and Owens who both had great years in the pen), but he still left them with the best talent in the NL and they choked it away in record fashion.

All in all, my thoughts are that they need two bullpen arms (one power arm if they can find it), a RF, and two starting pitchers to add to the age Pedro, El Duque, and the youth Perez, Maine, Pelfrey and Humber. They don't need a middle of the order hitter at all. If you get by in the NL with Wright, Beltran, Delgado and Alou then you have problems - and those problems would be your pitching staff.

[CuseFan10]

Glavine sucked yesterday, but I think that the fact that the Mets only scored 1 run the whole game could have also been a contributing factor to their loss.

Jose Reyes pretty much sucked down the stretch in September as well, and Mets fans love him (right?).

There was a whole lot more wrong there than Tom Glavine sucking ass his last couple starts. The suck ass bullpen for starters that blew how many leads in September, and big ones....to teams like Washington. No excuse.

The Mets were far from deserving of a playoff spot long before yesterday....especially seeings as how the Phillies beat them the last 7 straight.

The right team got in, and the Mets have no one person to point the finger at. There were just way too many that stank when it counted to put the blame on one person.

I'm not saying Glavine was the cause of the collapse, I'm saying he was th reason they lost YESTERDAY. Down 7-0 in the biggest game of the season before you get to home plate on offense is demoralizing. And like I said, if you need your back-up catcher to hit a grand slam in the 1st inning just to possibly get you back into the game, then the blame falls mostly on your starting pitcher (for that one game).

And yes Reyes sucked ass in August and September and yes, Mets fan LOVE him. In my eyes though, he took a HUUUUUGE step backwards this year and a lot of it seems to be ego or emotional which is masked to stupid fans by his constant smiling and fervor for the game. He acts like an immature baby a lot of the time and he didn't back it up the last two months of the year. Willie, or whoever the manager is next year, needs to outlaw the ******* handshake nonsense they do because every team in the National League HATES the Mets for that bush league bull****.

[PhillyFan3]

You know what the Mets problems were, start off with Saturday's game....

Reyes and Milledge act like idiots and they rile up and get the Marlins to clear their benches, and guess what you know the last place team in the NL East has something to play for and they were given a chance to play spoiler....

More Mets problems, they are a soft team!! they are very soft, Lo Duca is the biggest mary in baseball, besides David Wright no one on that Mets team has any heart, they have a bunch of punks on their roster and it showed on Saturday with the bench clearing brawl and it showed Sunday when Reyes was smiling on the bases when his team was down 6 runs....The bullpen was another problem, Wagner is a known choke artist, great for the first half of the year and then when the pressure comes Billy either wont come in the game or he will blow the game(blew them in Philly, Houston, and now NY) or point fingers at other people...Mota and Sosa are both god awful and then Willie Randolph just wore out his other pitchers in Feliciano, Heilman, Schoenweis, and Smith....Willie also mismanaged this team and Rick Peterson didnt do a good job either.....also cuse, i saw your trade proposal for Santana, but I see no clue why the Twins would ever want Mike Pelfrey, that guy blows, and he was getting key starts at the end of the year....I think if the Mets wanted Santana, they'd have to give up Humber, Reyes, and Milledge....

I dont give a **** nor do I feel bad, because I have a lot of friends that are Mets fans and they talked **** all year and now they can enjoy their off season and listen to Billy Wagner point his finger at everyone else except himself and hear LoDuca bitch like a little girl, and for their organization to over-react and make some stupid moves, but whatever it was a great race at the end of the year, and as a Phillies fan I enjoyed watching this collapse, but I also that the Mets will be back next year and it should make for another good NL East race with a better Braves team, tougher Fish and Nats teams....

[CuseFan10]

You know what the Mets problems were, start off with Saturday's game....

Reyes and Milledge act like idiots and they rile up and get the Marlins to clear their benches, and guess what you know the last place team in the NL East has something to play for and they were given a chance to play spoiler....

More Mets problems, they are a soft team!! they are very soft, Lo Duca is the biggest mary in baseball, besides David Wright no one on that Mets team has any heart, they have a bunch of punks on their roster and it showed on Saturday with the bench clearing brawl and it showed Sunday when Reyes was smiling on the bases when his team was down 6 runs....The bullpen was another problem, Wagner is a known choke artist, great for the first half of the year and then when the pressure comes Billy either wont come in the game or he will blow the game(blew them in Philly, Houston, and now NY) or point fingers at other people...Mota and Sosa are both god awful and then Willie Randolph just wore out his other pitchers in Feliciano, Heilman, Schoenweis, and Smith....Willie also mismanaged this team and Rick Peterson didnt do a good job either.....also cuse, i saw your trade proposal for Santana, but I see no clue why the Twins would ever want Mike Pelfrey, that guy blows, and he was getting key starts at the end of the year....I think if the Mets wanted Santana, they'd have to give up Humber, Reyes, and Milledge....

Congrats to your Phills bro, have to say that first. GREAT job by them. Rollins deserves the MVP. I don't even dislike the Phills at all and might root for them because they are a fun team with fun ballpark (albeit obnoxious fans, but hey it's Philly).

Calling LoDuca soft is way off base though. He's the only tough guy on that team. Plays hard every day, plays hurt, speaks up, etc, etc... Your Reyes and Milledge point is DEAD ON. They awoke a team that was ready to pack their bags and go to the Caribbean on vacation. Their 'youthful exuberance' is not that at all, it's immaturity and a lack of discipline, IMHO. I know they were reprimanded at least twice during the season for doing that **** and they couldn't have picked a worse time to do it... Billy Wagner is a closer. Unless your name is Mariano Rivera, they all choke, and choke a lot. What can you do?... Sosa is not awful, he saved them many times this year. He was misused because he was the only guy who could get anyone out down the stretch.

:thumbs:

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

Rollins, MVP for sure...

[msl90]

I'm a huge Met fan as well and I really really would like to see Willie fired. I'm not going to state my argument because CuseFan and TheBeholdah pretty much summed up everything I would have said. They have no leadership (Wright is very young still hopefully he turns into one) partially because nobody speaks the same language, but also because their guys are quiet (especially Willie) and Pedro was out most of the season. Willie never showed emotion for the team, never motivated them etc. I won't go on for long at all because the other guys hold the same view as me, but I don't think Johan is realistic, but I think we will get a very very good frontline starter. Also, second base is somewhat up in the air, I think they could make a move for a bigger guy than Castillo. In the pen, Francisco Cordero, Scott Linebrink, and Octavio Dotel are all in their contract years, Omar could very well go get one of those guys to be the 8th inning guy. As for a slugger, there aren't many guys out there, but I think I heard Dunn is somewhat on the block from Cincy, he'd be quite a cleanup guy in the Mets lineup...Not sure what he'd cost though.

[CuseFan10]

msl90 - Good stuff man. I just don't see why the need another "slugger"? They have Wright, Delgado, Alou, and Beltran. They don't need Adam Dunn, who is a HORRIBLE defensive player and strikes out 180 times a year. They need a good, solid player who plays hard and will hit 15-18 HR's and drive in some runs from the 6 spot.

Another guy KILLING Willie today is Billy Wagner now. I don't think anyone likes Willie so they really need to get rid of him.

Wright will be the leader they need in time. He's still a kid. Will Reyes ever grow up though is the question?

Reyes and Milledge are really getting lambasted here in the area for their actions. They can give Milledge away for a bag of balls for all I care.

[Skinsfan]

nats will own this division in a couple years

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

Did I just read that someone wanted their team to pick up Adam Dumm? :nuts:

[msl90]

msl90 - Good stuff man. I just don't see why the need another "slugger"? They have Wright, Delgado, Alou, and Beltran. They don't need Adam Dunn, who is a HORRIBLE defensive player and strikes out 180 times a year. They need a good, solid player who plays hard and will hit 15-18 HR's and drive in some runs from the 6 spot.

The reason I think they need a slugger is as follows:
Wright-He's great, he should be a .325 hitter with 30 hrs per year approximately
Delgado-Washed up, maybe he has one more season in him, but I don't see him hitting over .260 or over 25 homeruns again, he'll probably be around there again
Alou-Obviously he carried the team down the stretch, they'll exercise his option, but imagine if he didn't....This team would have been eliminated a week ago. The team can't expect to go anywhere if they rely on this 45 year old (who hasn't been healthy for a full season in centuries) to be healthy and be their main producer down the stretch
Beltran-Unbelievable defensively, but that stretch run in Houston has made him slightly overrated as a hitter. He's a career .270-.280 hitter, he's pretty streaky and I think he'll hit 30 homers per year rather than 40.

If you believe that Wright/Delgado/Beltran can combine for say 110 homeruns then you're right they don't need a slugger, but I think they'll fall a little short. Here's a stat. Shawn Green, Lastings Milledge, Luis Castillo and Paul Lo Duca had a combined 1200 at-bats approximately (I think). They combined for just 94 runs batted in. Reyes had 57 rbis in 681 ABs (not bad at all for a leadoff guy). But my point is as of now the team depends almost completely on the Wright/Delgado/Beltran/Alou group, and with two of those guys having major age/health concerns, I just think they could use another run producer. Maybe I exagerrated and it doesn't have to be Adam Dunn, but someone else could help...

[PhillyFan3]

Here's what I think of the Mets....

David Wright, he is awesame, as much as I hate him because of how good he is, he plays the game the way its supposed to be played and he gives it all, great player, period...
Jose Reyes- as good as he is, he is still very immature and doesnt seem to get it, he's going to only get better but it seems like he didnt have the mental strength down the stretch..
Delgado- I believe his days are over...
Castillo-Gotay-Gomez...platoon players who are very useful, id keep them
Alou, I would keep him as well, he was carrying the Mets down the stretch, great for 120 games
Beltran-awesame should stay
Green, LoDuca -- id let these guys walk and look for replacements in free agency, heard Posada-Mets rumors

They should go with Pedro, Perez, El Duque, Maine, and then either Humber or someone in free agency(Silva maybe?)
Their pen could use Smith, Sosa, Schoenweis, Wagner, Feliciano, Heilman, and then add some like Linebrink
They should bring in an energy manager like Girardi

If I were the Mets I'd try to move Milledge, Gotay-Gomez, Pelfrey 4 a pitcher like Harden, Willis, or Haren one of those type of pitchers and I am sure they'd be alright, but they will definitley need to make some changes, because the NL East is only getting better, Atlanta has a great lineup with some young studs and 2 beasts at the top of the rotation, Washington is young and improving, Florida should be a weak link again, Phillies are returning almost everyone, who knows whats gonna happen with Rowand, but the Phillies should have some money to spend I am sure they are either going to go after another starter or a key reliever(Linebrink or Nathan), but I heard rumors of trading for D-train...

[msl90]

Here's what I think of the Mets....
They should go with Pedro, Perez, El Duque, Maine, and then either Humber or someone in free agency(Silva maybe?)
Their pen could use Smith, Sosa, Schoenweis, Wagner, Feliciano, Heilman, and then add some like Linebrink
They should bring in an energy manager like Girardi

Not to get too picky here, but Schowenweis? He's the first guy I want out the door after Willie, Mota and Newhan lol.:nuts:

[CuseFan10]

Not to get too picky here, but Schowenweis? He's the first guy I want out the door after Willie, Mota and Newhan lol.:nuts:

Yea, Scotty really sucks. Had a couple good months in Cincy and cashed in on it. The big things in the news today are that Castillo has been an awful influence on Reyes - which makes sense since look how he's played since Castillo got here. Supposedly, Jose Valentin was the guy who kept Reyes in line and since he's been hurt nad not around, Reyes has gone to ****. Also, Rickey Henderson needs to go too... Nothing he does can be a good influence attitude-wise for Reyes.

My gut says: LoDuca, Castillo, Green, Newhan, Glavine, Mota, Sele all definitely gone and Conine is retiring. Adios. Only one with a shot at coming back is Castillo, but the rumors about his attitude and influence are coming to light. His glove and sense for the game are phenomenal though, I like him as a player but you can't have him ruining Jose Reyes.

Milledge should be gone. His performance the last two days of the season hopefully sealed his fate. He said he did the dance ON PURPOSE and basically walked after the ball Dontrelle hit allowing the pitcher to get a triple. The kid has SERIOUS attitude problems and even if they get nothing for him in return, they have to get rid of him and his problem child behavior.

El Duque will be brought back at $6.5 million but as insurance/4th-5th starter. He was good this year, just always gets hurt.

Schoeneweiss is back cause he's lefty and his contract is insane at $3.6 million, and no one will take it and the same applies for the $16 million due to Delgado.

Heilman I don't know. He obviously wants to start and is arbitration eligible. My guy says he's gone too though I think he's a very useful reliever when not overworked.

Everyone else should be back - Castro, Gotay, Reyes, Wright, Anderson, Alou, Beltran, Chavez, Gomez, Pedro, Maine, Oliver P, Pelfrey, Humber, Wagner, Feliciano, Sosa, Smith, and the Muniz kid.

The kids could be gone via trade or something and I could see them letting go of Gotay or Sosa looking for upgrades I guess.