Who's In, Who's out thread Con't:

[GamblinMan03]

That's right, I forgot only Duke is capable of such a feat this year probably, huh?

Duke has a chance to do it just as much as GT and Maryland do...But theres no way two teams that play on Thursday make it all the way to Sunday. Sure we can say anything is possible but lets be realistic here...

Should be interesting though...

[bookiekilla]

Duke has a chance to do it just as much as GT and Maryland do.....

:laughing:

[GamblinMan03]

bk, maybe you forget your Yellow Jackets getting whipped by Duke about 2 weeks ago??? Well they did, just a friendly reminder!

[BoilerBacker]

Two things:

(1) Boiler - The Big 10 is not the 4th best conference in America. It's not better than the ACC, Big East, Big 12, or Pac 10. I know you will counter with the old, "We have two #1 seeds argument", but after that it is really lacking. I would say it's the 5th best personally, but to each their own.

(2) Bookie Killa - Technically, Flyers is right because if GT loses to Wake Forest on Wednesday or Thursday (or whenever it is), that will knock them right back out of the brackets. They HAVE to win that game and then if they lose to Virginia Tech, it shouldn't really matter. But again, technically he is correct. They can't lose the opening round game.

The Drive for 65

Here's my 65 (should have waited one more day, but I can always update it tomorrow. Only saying I should have waited cause I think Wright State becomes the first "bid stealer" tonight so I've prematurely factored that in already):

Big East (7)- GTown, Pitt, Louisville, Marquette, Notre Dame, Villanova, Syracuse
ACC (7)- UNC, Virginia, Va Tech, Duke, Maryland, BC, Ga Tech
Big 12 (5)- Kansas, Texas AM, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State
Big 10 (5)- OSU, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan St, (Illinois or Purdue)
Pac 10 (6)- UCLA, USC, Washington State, Oregon, Arizona, Stanford
SEC (4)- Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky
MWC (3)- UNLV, BYU, Air Force
MVC (2)- Southern Illinois, Creighton
Colonial (2)- VCU (win tonight), Old Dominion
Horizon (2)- Wright State (win tonight), Butler

OTHER BID STEALER PROBLEMS
Conference USA (1)- Memphis
WAC (1)- Nevada
Atlantic 10 (1)- Xavier

(46) + (18) 1 bid conferences = (64)

So, if Wright State can't win tonight than I have two spots open, and if they do then I only have 1. The teams I have left battling for those spots are the Illinois/Purdue left out team, Missouri State, and Gonzaga, than after that Drexel, Bradley, and Ole Miss (who I basically consider out). I think Gonzaga has put it together and wins tonight, so the can solve that 'problem' there and it's a battle between Power Conference midling vs Mid Major darling essentially. Xavier getting to the Atlantic 10 final and losing would solve all of this because that's another stolen bid.

The highest RPI teams I have eliminated and am giving no creedence to as serious contenders at this point in time are Clemson (36), Florida State (45), and Alabama (42).

The team I have as "LAST IN" except for the 1 bid remaining is Old Dominion.

I would be inclined to give the remaining bid to Purdue because I feel like Missouri State had plenty of chances to prove their worth and didn't. If it were Illinois, I don't know what I'd do because I truly feel Illinois sucks ass.

:thumbs:

Just my opinion, but I dont think the Big East is better than the Big Ten. There are four Minnesotas in the Big East....SH, Cincy, Rutgers and So Fla. I have not seen one good game out of any of them which is not what I can say about Penn State. Quite frankly, the most overrated team in the US, IMO is ND. They have played a really weak schedule.

In addition, the team currently in first place Gtown, lost to ODU, Oregon and Duke...two of them at home. Pitt has no big out of conference wins and got blasted by Wisky and lost to Okie State. Louisville has no big nonconf wins either and lost to Ariz, Dayton, and Ky. I am not saying there is a huge gulf between the Big 10 and the Big East, but I dont see widespread marquee wins amongst the better teams.

[bookiekilla]

bk, maybe you forget your Yellow Jackets getting whipped by Duke about 2 weeks ago??? Well they did, just a friendly reminder!

that was then...this is now....maybe you haven't noticed the way Duke and GT have been playing in the last couple of weeks....going in opposite directions to end the regular season...:beer2:

[CuseFan10]

Just my opinion, but I dont think the Big East is better than the Big Ten. There are four Minnesotas in the Big East....SH, Cincy, Rutgers and So Fla. I have not seen one good game out of any of them which is not what I can say about Penn State. Quite frankly, the most overrated team in the US, IMO is ND. They have played a really weak schedule.

In addition, the team currently in first place Gtown, lost to ODU, Oregon and Duke...two of them at home. Pitt has no big out of conference wins and got blasted by Wisky and lost to Okie State. Louisville has no big nonconf wins either and lost to Ariz, Dayton, and Ky. I am not saying there is a huge gulf between the Big 10 and the Big East, but I dont see widespread marquee wins amongst the better teams.

BB- While I HIGHLY HIGHLY respect your opinion, there are numerous flaws in your argument me thinks.

1- There are 16 teams in the Big East so it's more likely their will be bad teams in the conference. That's just a numbers game. Also, if you are gonna claim Penn State is not a bad team then I have to claim that Seton Hall isn't either under the same premise. They played plenty of teams tough throughout the season, much like Penn State. Also 3 bad teams out of 11 is a worse percentage than 4 of 16 last time I checked, no? Also, even if you perceive the bottom of the Big East to be lackluster, the 'meat and potatoes' of the conference (seeds 3-8) are much better than the Big 10. Marquette and Villanova would both be the third best team in the Big 10 and they are 6 and 8 seeds respectively for the Big East tournament.

2- Georgetown lost to those teams you mentioned in November. That was over 3 months ago now and it's clearly not the same team. I don't think that's a relevant statement at all. Wisconsin lost to Missouri State (by the way). Also, last time I checked all three of those "bad" losses are all to teams ranked inside the RPI Top 50.

3- As for Pitt, yea they lost back to back road games to two power conference teams who were ranked in the Top 15 at the time. Not really sure what kinda of statement that is making either?

4- Again, I feel like a broken record, but Louisville lost those games months ago. They are a young team that has clearly jelled with Derek Caracter back in the lineup now. I don't understand how two of the hottest teams in the entire nation (GTown and UL) are the owns to target here by bringing up games they lost well before Christmas?

5- Lastly, I'm not saying there is a huge gulf either, but after Ohio State and Wisconsin, the Big 10 is not a very good conference. Until about two weeks ago it looks as if they might only get 3-4 teams in and then MSU got hot, Illinois won a game or two, and Purdue beat the cupcakes they had left of their schedule (NW twice, and Minny).

Here's the biggest reason I don't think the Big 10 is any good. If you eliminate Wisconsin and Ohio State (which I'm fully admitting trumps the Big East big shots easily), the conference road record of the remaining 9 teams is 12-57. Of those 12 road conference wins, 11 of them are against Penn State, Northwestern, and Minnesota. The only other road win is Iowa over Michigan in Ann Arbor. Even you have to admit that that is a sad, sad statistic and proves the middle tier teams in the Big 10 just aren't that good.

Interesting debate, but with all due respect, if you step back from your affection for the Big 10 then you can see the 'meat and potatoes' of the Big East is far better me thinks.

Have a good one BB, don't let Flyers give you any trouble down there in Arizona :thumbs:

[GamblinMan03]

that was then...this is now....maybe you haven't noticed the way Duke and GT have been playing in the last couple of weeks....going in opposite directions to end the regular season...:beer2:

We lost to two very good teams to end the season. Before that, we had a five game winning streak....You had a few big home wins to end the season, besides that, I think we will see the same inconsistent GT team we saw the entire year. Just one mans opinion...

[BoilerBacker]

BB- While I HIGHLY HIGHLY respect your opinion, there are numerous flaws in your argument me thinks.

1- There are 16 teams in the Big East so it's more likely their will be bad teams in the conference. That's just a numbers game. Also, if you are gonna claim Penn State is not a bad team then I have to claim that Seton Hall isn't either under the same premise. They played plenty of teams tough throughout the season, much like Penn State. Also 3 bad teams out of 11 is a worse percentage than 4 of 16 last time I checked, no? Also, even if you perceive the bottom of the Big East to be lackluster, the 'meat and potatoes' of the conference (seeds 3-8) are much better than the Big 10. Marquette and Villanova would both be the third best team in the Big 10 and they are 6 and 8 seeds respectively for the Big East tournament.

2- Georgetown lost to those teams you mentioned in November. That was over 3 months ago now and it's clearly not the same team. I don't think that's a relevant statement at all. Wisconsin lost to Missouri State (by the way). Also, last time I checked all three of those "bad" losses are all to teams ranked inside the RPI Top 50.

3- As for Pitt, yea they lost back to back road games to two power conference teams who were ranked in the Top 15 at the time. Not really sure what kinda of statement that is making either?

4- Again, I feel like a broken record, but Louisville lost those games months ago. They are a young team that has clearly jelled with Derek Caracter back in the lineup now. I don't understand how two of the hottest teams in the entire nation (GTown and UL) are the owns to target here by bringing up games they lost well before Christmas?

5- Lastly, I'm not saying there is a huge gulf either, but after Ohio State and Wisconsin, the Big 10 is not a very good conference. Until about two weeks ago it looks as if they might only get 3-4 teams in and then MSU got hot, Illinois won a game or two, and Purdue beat the cupcakes they had left of their schedule (NW twice, and Minny).

Here's the biggest reason I don't think the Big 10 is any good. If you eliminate Wisconsin and Ohio State (which I'm fully admitting trumps the Big East big shots easily), the conference road record of the remaining 9 teams is 12-57. Of those 12 road conference wins, 11 of them are against Penn State, Northwestern, and Minnesota. The only other road win is Iowa over Michigan in Ann Arbor. Even you have to admit that that is a sad, sad statistic and proves the middle tier teams in the Big 10 just aren't that good.

Interesting debate, but with all due respect, if you step back from your affection for the Big 10 then you can see the 'meat and potatoes' of the Big East is far better me thinks.

Have a good one BB, don't let Flyers give you any trouble down there in Arizona :thumbs:

My main point was that there are very few quality wins by the Big East teams non conference....especially by the cream of the crop teams. If you go down the list of Big Ten teams, most of the Top teams have at least one quality win. Mich State beat Texas and BYU and lost to Md by 2. IU beat UConn at Storrs. Wisky did lose AT Mizz State by 2 (cant win every road game...) and won AT Marquette and beat Pitt. Purdue beat DePaul and Virginia (I only mention DePaul because they are in the Big E). OSU actually does not have a great Nonconf win outside of Tennessee. Even NW beat DePaul by 10. I will agree with you that Penn State is no better than SH, but I still contend that an 8-8 Prov team would lose to the 8-8 MSU team and I actually believe that 9-7 Purdue would beat 11-5 ND on a neutral court. I realize all of these games were early, but there is no other way to compare them.

Regarding away records, I will also contend that winning away in the Big 10 is tougher than in the Big East.... but I dont think this argument means much. It is tough to win on the road in college bball.... for everyone.

[CuseFan10]

Point taken, we can agree to disagree. I personally don't think Purdue is better than Notre Dame. If those teams played ten times chances are they would go 5-5, and at best, 6-4 against one another I feel. Michigan State is probably better than Providence, but the fact that you are comparing the Big 10's 4th best team (with regard to NCAA tournament purposes and RPI) compared the Big East's 8th best team kinda proves my point also, I feel.

One more day until the real fun starts!!! Good stuff, BB!!! Good luck this week!!!

[CuseFan10]

The Drive for 65

Here's my 65 (should have waited one more day, but I can always update it tomorrow. Only saying I should have waited cause I think Wright State becomes the first "bid stealer" tonight so I've prematurely factored that in already):

Big East (7)- GTown, Pitt, Louisville, Marquette, Notre Dame, Villanova, Syracuse
ACC (7)- UNC, Virginia, Va Tech, Duke, Maryland, BC, Ga Tech
Big 12 (5)- Kansas, Texas AM, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State
Big 10 (5)- OSU, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan St, (Illinois or Purdue)
Pac 10 (6)- UCLA, USC, Washington State, Oregon, Arizona, Stanford
SEC (4)- Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky
MWC (3)- UNLV, BYU, Air Force
MVC (2)- Southern Illinois, Creighton
Colonial (2)- VCU (win tonight), Old Dominion
Horizon (2)- Wright State (win tonight), Butler

OTHER BID STEALER PROBLEMS
Conference USA (1)- Memphis
WAC (1)- Nevada
Atlantic 10 (1)- Xavier

(46) + (18) 1 bid conferences = (64)

So, if Wright State can't win tonight than I have two spots open, and if they do then I only have 1. The teams I have left battling for those spots are the Illinois/Purdue left out team, Missouri State, and Gonzaga, than after that Drexel, Bradley, and Ole Miss (who I basically consider out). I think Gonzaga has put it together and wins tonight, so the can solve that 'problem' there and it's a battle between Power Conference midling vs Mid Major darling essentially. Xavier getting to the Atlantic 10 final and losing would solve all of this because that's another stolen bid.

The highest RPI teams I have eliminated and am giving no creedence to as serious contenders at this point in time are Clemson (36), Florida State (45), and Alabama (42).

The team I have as "LAST IN" except for the 1 bid remaining is Old Dominion.

I would be inclined to give the remaining bid to Purdue because I feel like Missouri State had plenty of chances to prove their worth and didn't. If it were Illinois, I don't know what I'd do because I truly feel Illinois sucks ass.

:thumbs:

Still on target.... :thumbs:

Last spot I'll have Illinois or Purdue vs Missouri State. Illininois and Purdue really need to win their quarterfinal games (Illinois beating Penn State means nothing to me).

[GamblinMan03]

One of my favorite days of the year is Wednesday. The start of the Big East tournament. Everyone knows I am an ACC guy but the BE tourny starts off March Madness IMO. GL everyone, cant wait and its going to be a fun month...

[CuseFan10]

My original was pretty close to my final barring the upsets obviously

AMERICA EAST (1)
ATLANTIC SUN (1)
BIG SKY (1)
BIG SOUTH (1)
BIG WEST (1)
CONFERENCE USA (1)
IVY (1)
METRO ATLANTIC (1)
MID AMERICAN (1)
MID CONTINENT (1)
MID EASTERN ATHLETIC (1)
NORTHEAST (1)
OHIO VALLEY (1)
PATRIOT (1)
SOUTHERN (1)
SOUTHLAND (1)
SOUTHWESTERN ATHLETIC (1)
SUN BELT (1)
WEST COAST (1)

ATLANTIC 10 (2) - George Washington, Xavier
HORIZON (2) - Wright State, Butler
MISSOURI VALLEY (2) - Creighton, Southern Illinois
WAC (2) - New Mexico State, Nevada
MOUNTAIN WEST (2) - UNLV, BYU
COLONIAL (2) - VCU, Old Dominion

SEC (4) - Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

BIG 12 (5) - Kansas, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech. Kansas State
BIG 10 (5) - Ohio State, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan State, Purdue

PAC 10 (6) - UCLA, Oregon, Washington State, USC, Arizona, Stanford

BIG EAST (7) - Georgetown, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Marquette, NotreDame, Villanova, Syracuse
ACC (7) - North Carolina, Maryland, Virginia, Virgina Tech, Duke, BostonCollege, Georgia Tech

LAST 4 IN (in order): Stanford, Georgia Tech, Old Dominion, Kansas State

LAST 4 OUT (in order): Florida State, Drexel, Air Force, Illinois

NOTES:I personally think FSU should get in over GT, bit I don't see the committee doing that so I'm leaving GT in there. I also feel Drexel should get in over Kansas State (because K-State has basically no Top50/quality wins), but I also don't see the committee going that way so I left it as I think they will do it. I also don't see how they can justify putting Drexel in over Old Dominion when ODU beat Drexel TWICE and finished two games ahead of them in the conference standings. That's not fair in my eyes. I know Drexel has wins outside the conference, but those head to games have to count for something otherwise why are they playing them?

:thumbs:

[CuseFan10]

Boy, Arkansas is making a case here. Gonna be interesting to see what happens with them. They are probably a better team than Kansas State, plus the SEC only having 4 teams in right now just looks plain odd.

Interesting.

[CuseFan10]

Take that back. Arkansas forgot there was a second half. Not a chance they get in now. No bubbles burst and none will.

3 more hours!!!!!!!