Economy

[BoKnows]

I have read and reread, and read again all of the useless dribble about how the Economy is all Bush's fault...well about how everything is Bush's fault....Please enlighten me Fish,Corey, Dana, Johnny, Q, anyone....how the economic mess we are in comes down to Bush. As I mentioned I read alot, and not just bumper stickers....so I need to see how I am missing the boat on this one. I have my Highbore XLS in hand just need one of you astute individuals to tee this one up for me......Thanks in advance.

[coreyschucky]

I never once stated that it started with Bush. In fact the economic issues we're facing started with Clinton. Additionally alot of the issues we're facing has to do with Wall Street and the Banking system. It all boiled down to wall street and bank greed and the fact that most americans borrow more money then they can ever afford. The issue I take with Bush is they knew this was the road that we were leading to and they turned a blind eye to the situation and stuck to the Republican doctrine of deregulation and allowing the market to fix itself. Obviously the market isn't going to correct itself as we've put ourself in too deep of a hole. The problems stems with Republicans/Democrats/Wall Street & Banks. We borrow WAY TOO MUCH money from other countries.

[FlyersFan]

funny thing is that it was barney frank who basically mandated that freddie and fanny lend to poor people and people with ****ty credit because he felt that there was a class difference that kept poor people from owning a home or people with ****ty credit. he felt everyone should own their own home, so he set the whole fanny/freddie thing into play. so freddie and fanny lent to everyone and anyone....zero interest, nothing down, no credit checks....:thumbs:.....and now all of a sudden this is bush's mess? not a chance. the democrats were as much behind the housing crisis as anyone. so fanny and freddie fail (no duh...i mean there is a reason that somebody making 2K a month shouldn't own a home) and that sets the whole thing into motion

but none of the democratic supporters will ever tell you that. it's just a giant game of pass the buck. and they still just don't get it. they don't understand things like if you raise my business taxes, im not giong to take home less, im just going to give my empolyees less.

but in the end BO, anyone pro democrat is for a socialist society. that's what barney frank, harry reid, pelosi and the rest of the liberals want. they think that everyone should own a home, have health insurance, make the same amount of money.........

[coreyschucky]

The best thing that both and Republicans and Democrats can do first is pump money into the credit market and then fix the fundamental issues with the housing market, banking system and wall street greed.

[FlyersFan]

ARticle in the 1999 WSJ. Tell me where you see the Republicans handwriting on this?


Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending
By STEVEN A. HOLMES In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders. The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring. Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits. In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans. ''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.'' Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market. In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's. ''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.'' Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped. Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings. Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualify for a mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites. Home ownership has, in fact, exploded among minorities during the economic boom of the 1990's. The number of mortgages extended to Hispanic applicants jumped by 87.2 per cent from 1993 to 1998, according to Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing Studies. During that same period the number of African Americans who got mortgages to buy a home increased by 71.9 per cent and the number of Asian Americans by 46.3 per cent. In contrast, the number of non-Hispanic whites who received loans for homes increased by 31.2 per cent. Despite these gains, home ownership rates for minorities continue to lag behind non-Hispanic whites, in part because blacks and Hispanics in particular tend to have on average worse credit ratings. In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001, 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers. Last year, 44 percent of the loans Fannie Mae purchased were from these groups. The change in policy also comes at the same time that HUD is investigating allegations of racial discrimination in the automated underwriting systems used by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to determine the credit-worthiness of credit applicants.




funny how 10 years ago this guy saw the writing on the wall for 2008.

once again the socialist notion that everyone should have everything in life and it should all be equal. hey, no problem...so your credit is horrible because you've defaulted on a million things before and squander your money on 40's and big screens.....here have a house. compliments of the liberals. and we'll just blame it on someone else if it goes south....because we're liberals and that's what we do....:thumbs:

[FlyersFan]

what a fking joke.......Fanny and Freddie ARE THE FKING WORK OF THE LIBERALS.......and if you read the article...most of the subprime lending when to low income minorities and people with ****ty credit. and now we're wondering why these people can't make ahouse payment? :dunno:


why can't people see that. why do people continuously pin this on the republicans. I am probably more of an independent than anything, but im fking bright enough to be able to pick through issues and see things for what they are. there are some people on this site who support the democrats that im beginning to believe are either (a) just really stupid or (b) blinded and neither one is good when we are voting in an election.

if you know anything about how this all went down it was based mostly on lending to unqualified people at the behest of the democrats and THEIR BABY....Freddy/Fanny......if you will also recall, the failing of those started this whole spiral downward in the market and all of the bail outs. there are other factors but how can you ignore probably the biggest one?? just don't get it.

[BoKnows]

I dont understand if you want socialism go live in Canada they love that **** up there!

Flyers you are spot on!. Most the libs...Corey not included:), blame Bush, but in fact it was Franks master plan for freddie and fannie that lead us down this road and the Clintons and Obama could have helped rectify the situation 2 years ago based on Greenspans recommendations but decided to pass as that would have severly limited the ability of the lower class to buy homes. Any person with half a brain i.e not Frank and his constituants understand this. Liberals stop blaming Bush for all your problems, and read something besides a bumper sticker to form your opinions. The Wall Street Journal is a good place to start, but it takes a little effort.

[Skinsfan]

i dont understand this whole deregulation argument... it's all bull****... anyone who has been paying attention (me, for one) has seen this coming for at least 18 months... NO ONE was talking about regulation issues until 2 weeks ago... all of a sudden, the whole problem is the republicans and deregulation... well here's a little news flash.... the problem we are seeing today is from OVERREGULATION and forcing banks to continually re-invest funds into the housing sector to provide housing opportunities for people who can't afford them.

Thanks Barney Frank, the CRA, and ACORN for ******* **** up for us responsible people that bought what we could afford.

[Skinsfan]

oh yeah... fuk this too.... i hate that everyone is SCARED to say it.... but it's the damn truth... a big F U to the Congressional Black Caucus.... you did more harm to poor black people than good....

[Skinsfan]

by the way... a big F U to the liberal elite media who refuses to cover this.... If Barney Frank were a republican, he would be facing felony charges right now.

[BoKnows]

:ohman: SF!:smclap: :thx:

[FlyersFan]

by the way... a big F U to the liberal elite media who refuses to cover this.... If Barney Frank were a republican, he would be facing felony charges right now.

:thumbs: ....you know skins i just don't get it. not to pick on the guy but you have a supposed educated financial person like fish and all he does is walk around blaming bush and the republicans...just like so many other democrats. just really don't get it. seems like he wants to turn a blind eye to things like so many others

also i concur completely on the Frank thing.

Here is the problem with our country. we are NOT an educated country. 80% of this country doesn't have a fking clue when it comes to most things financial or really anything in this country. they are the same people who walk around like parrotts repeating everything they hear and couldn't begin to explain any of it. and then these are the people who are going to step to the window and pull a lever for a president.....:puke:. most of them are harming themselves in their voting actions and don't even realiize it. 80% of this country is the betting equivalent of the guy that doesn't know anything really about college footbal but likes to bet and he's taking the home favorite because he heard some clown on one of the 4million ESPN shows say that there is no way that so and so can lose at home. so he walks around all week like a parrot spouting what he's heard and then makes a bet and loses. problem is in an election he's making a bet with my money too......:bang:


this notion is becoming stronger and stronger in this country that everyone deserves something and you don't have to work for it. so the guy that busted his ass his whole life to get a 780 credit rating shouldn't be any more entitled to a 400K house than a dude who never made a payment on time and blew all his money on 40's and big screens during the month but didn't pay his phone bill. we have to stop it somehow someway.

now hard working people are losing tens of thousands out of their 401K's because the liberals feel everyone should own a home combined with financial greed of companies.


interesting thing, a guy i know is very high up in Charles Schwaab. You don't hear them being mentioned ever in any of this. They are a conservative company and stayed away from all of this subprime crap and are actually doing very well while competitors of theirs like Merrill Lynch went the opposite road.

whole thing makes me sick.

but bush is not to be exhonerated. he had a moron of a fed chief and let him stay far too long before replacing him. he tanked the dollar, probably on purpose to make home goods more attractive, but then let it fall wayyy too far and that was a big reason for the oil spike (one of the big ones at least). he is an idiot, IMO. but he isn't responsible for the housing mess which is at the cruxt of the financial failures and i just don't understand why people can't see everything for what it is. why aren't the democrats to blame

and another interesting note on the economy. the TEN WORST off economic cities all have democratic mayors and have for the better part of 30years...places like Cincinnati, DC etc.......but somehow that is bush and the republican's fault too. you know what, if you're not happy with your state in life go fking improve it. quit looking for a handout and blaming others out of jealousy.

democrats control about every major mayoral seat in this country, they control well over 60% of the governorships in this country, they control a huge number of local, county and state governments but yet it once again fallson the republicans. how can that be? You have controlled the house, sentate, and all those other things i havementioned and it's still not their fault. the democrats promised all this sweeping change in the house and senate and have done nothing. they went on recess while the republicans stayed. they had a lame duck president and still could't get anything done. it is the biggest group of losers i have ever seen. Yet here comes fish and his merry band of liberals to pin everything on the republicans and bush......:dunno:........talk about hypocrisy. WOW.....

[Skinsfan]

i'll be honest with ya.... I don't think this economy gets fixed any time soon... might be a few years.... the next president, be it obama or mccain, is probably ****ed....

[FlyersFan]

i'll be honest with ya.... I don't think this economy gets fixed any time soon... might be a few years.... the next president, be it obama or mccain, is probably ****ed....

yeah, was actually just typing that same thing. We're 3 years or so away at least. This thing has been going on for about 3 years already. That's a long time to have to grin and bear something. I went to an italian place skins last week on a wednesday night and from the time i sat down at 6:15 until i left about 7:30...NOBODY walked in the place. And this is a great restaurant that would have been packed 5 years ago and i probably would have had to wait on my table. The bartender had ONE customer the whole time i was there. It's scary. EVERYONE is losing in this mess. I think the sad thing is that there are a lot of places that just can't maintain for 2-4 years until this thing gets turned around and the economy gets better. You're going to see a lot of good people lose businesses and restaurants you loved close up etc....


and it's all bush's fault..........:laughing:

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

I dont understand if you want socialism go live in Canada they love that **** up there!

Funny thing is, we are on are way to an election up here as well, and it looks like it's going to be a second consecutive term for Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party.

The main reason, is that we have a 4 party system up here, with 3 of them various degrees of Liberal! lol. The Liberal Party is moderate, while the NDP is Socialist and Green Party are left as well.

The Conservatives have 36%, the Liberals have 27%, the NDP have 23% and the Greens have 10%. So while technically 2/3's of the country is voting for a liberal values party in one way or another, they are splitting their votes, and letting the conservative party into office once again.

lol....dumb Canuck Liberals. :beer2:


And don't include me in the Bush ruined the economy talk. I never said it, and don't have any opinion on the US and it's economy problems. The only thing I have disagreed with was his war in Iraq, and that has been my only beef ever here.

Glad Predictem brought politics back...sure has been friendly around here! The US sure gets divided and angry every election time! :bang:

Leave me out of it....I'm outta this forum....lol. Let's settle our differences on the ice! lol.