Economy

[FlyersFan]

Leave me out of it....I'm outta this forum....lol. Let's settle our differences on the ice! lol.

:beerbang: :beerbang:

honestly i try and stay out of it but the last 2 days have been really bad times on our country JML. you have no idea how bad things are down here. and to see people just throw it all on bush is rediculous. i am amazed at it really. i hate our government period. but i have also never been a person to just howl at the moon and im sick of seeing some of the posts in here by the same democrats throwing everything on bush.....shows a true fundamental lack of understanding of what has gone on to do that.

when the democrats control about every government entity from the local school board all the way up to the senate and house (minus the presidency) and have for years in a lot of areas. i mean if you have just about everything in democratic government control and 1 man george bush can render them all meaningless then he is the single most powerful person in the history of the world including hitler and all who have come before him.

but he isn't. and truth of the matter is that democrats should live by the slogan that when you are pointing 1 finger at someone else.....there are 4 pointing back at you. what a group of fking losers.

[BoKnows]

Johnny I was not dragging you in but inviting you:thumbs: Flyers, you have to know what your dealing with in the libs/dems...this is the crowd that lives and dies by "Bush lied people died" "not child left a dime""impeach Bush/Cheney"....serious mental giants. You ask most of them to spell cat spot the the C&T and they are stuck for a response. They get their information off a box of cracker jacks, reading comprehension is not what they consider a strong suit. They want to burn flags, protect sex offenders but kill 3rd term babies, replace the national anthem with here comes the sun, are patriotic but will vote for a president that hangs with a naturalized terrorist(what is the difference between McVeigh and Ayers...help me oh liberal ones), these are the true takers but want everyone else to be givers($100 is what Obama donated to charity last year:puke: ), it is a way of thinking that if you have a true sense of self you cannot understand, they are the opposite of what our founding fathers fought for to be liberated from the Brits. The world needs diversity, but also needs ditch diggers as well. If your worried about corn syrup in schools join the PTA, all talk no substance. At least it is funny to listen too:laughing:

[Fish2006]

Ill chime in.

As for why we are in the mess we are in now, it precedes Bush, precedes Clinton, and has much more to do with the fact that:

• Moody's et al were not rating CDOs in any sense of reality (AAA for mortgage backed securities with some of the most toxic paper around)
• Lehman and others were going 30x or 40x with leverage, putting like 2B of capital down to borrow 80B which they then put out on the street as ****ty mortgages, which because the risk rating agencies were not doing their job, would become AAA paper and hence "risk free"
• Technology that allowed for automated underwriting. You used to examine the mortgage app - for a few years, that went to the wayside, and FICO score was the only thing that mattered. That tech really only became widespread 1999 and forward.
• It became "easy" to make money in real estate. A lot - if not most - of the bad paper wasn't subprime loans for poor people in Detroit, it was subprime loans for your 3rd condo flip in Las Vegas, Miami, etc.
• People who had money and good credit, but had a lack of understanding about what "1% interest" was - that is, people with good credit were taking out neg amoritization loans that were tied to LIBOR, these people got eaten alive - Wachovia underwrote a lot of that, and that is a main reason Wachovia ceased to exist yesterday.
• Investment banks confusing beta for alpha. Because you could lever up to the hilt lending long and borrowing short, you could on paper make 20-30% after leverage, making it look like you were a genius, leading to 8 fig bonuses for people making these deals. The old analogy of "you find out who was skinny dipping when the tide goes out".

Those are the reasons. Bush, for as much as I think he sucks, was only complicit insomuch as he failed to see this and, for awhile, took advantage of the fact that we had become an "ownership society" because so many more people were homeowners - at least on paper. Any no other scumbag politician did anything either, noting congress did **** about this too. They are all guilty... Every. Single. Damn. One.

Its like a party where the booze is flowing and everyone is having a good time. In 2000, 2003, 2005, or any time prior to basically this year, there was no upside for anyone to stop the party. Doing so would have been like the church lady showing up at your party and taking away the booze - probably better for your hangover in the morning, but in the short term, not exactly popular.

[BoKnows]

Ill chime in.

Its like a party where the booze is flowing and everyone is having a good time. In 2000, 2003, 2005, or any time prior to basically this year, there was no upside for anyone to stop the party. Doing so would have been like the church lady showing up at your party and taking away the booze - probably better for your hangover in the morning, but in the short term, not exactly popular.

Great analogy!I definetly agree to a point as it relates to the rich trying to get richer but not understanding the game. The ratings group did have a big hand in this as well. The reason I started this thread was because everyone who is pro Hussein on this site seems pretty easy to point the finger at the last 8 years as the cause to all of our problems today, without actually understanding the problems and how we arrived. For as much as Bush does suck, the Pelosi's, Reids, and Boxers of the world suck more. Just re listen to madam dumbass speakers speach at such a crucial time yesterday. Can you try an **** things up even worse? Me dont tink so!:thumbs:

[FlyersFan]

dude- im sick of everyone. don't let that get past you. i hate them all. but i just can't stand by and watch people point the finger at one guy and not the rest. It would be like if 3 kids threw rocks and broke your neighbors windows and then everyone was looking to blame only one of the rock throwers. just doesn't make sense.

and yes fish there were a lot of factors that went into this and it does go way back. but all of the stories of people who can't afford their payments (and i know a lot of them believe it or not through my customers etc...) should never have had a house in the first place. Look at the hardest hit areas. Modesto, CA, Bakersfield, CA, Stockton, CA.....those are all places fish that are full of 30-50K a year workers who were buying houses with bad credit and at prices of like 500 and 600K. do the math.

and yes the 3rd condo people got crushed when the market fell i agree. but Barney Frank and the liberals got the ball rolling with this Fannie/Freddie thing 10 years ago and were enticing banks to make bad choices. Then the greed kicks in on all fronts and we are where we are. Remember the defaults are what caused the housing bubble to burst along with too much supply. You knew the market would correct but nobody knew it would be this much. There were neighborhoods in bakersfield, CA that hadn't even finished the development and there were already 3 and 4 foreclosures PER STREET in the development.

And how about these CEO's that ruined these financial companies and are leaving with 50 and 60M severance deals.....WTF....i want to nuke all those fkers too. I think we need to take every fking nickel from those ass holes and put in the bail out fund.

You had lenders lending to stupid people who didn't understand the implications financially of what they were doing to blame. You have people being slammed by freddie/fannie into houses they had no business being in due to income and credit ratings. You had banks being pressured to lend to the wrong people and seeing dollar signs. You had our good old friends "greed" and "speculation" which when given time will ruin everything from the oil market to the stock market to the housing market. Too many bad factors.



but somebody explain this to me. How are Barney Frank and the democrats skating on this?

Also please someone answer a 2nd question for me. When the democrats control just about every mayoral seat, city council, county governments, state house/sentates.....over 60% of governorships, the house and the senate............how are they skating? Somebody explain to me when you control all that AND HAVE FOR QUITE SOME TIME....when the 10 worst off cities in america (major ones) are under democratic control and have been for 30 years...some have never had a republican mayor......how is it not their fault? Why are the republicans to blame? And if your answer is that the president has that much control then why do we even have mayors. I know the answer and i think most of you know the answer to this question already. Problem is that a lot of people just want to turn and point the finger. The sooner america wakes up and sees things for what they are and the sooner we educate people on this the better off we will be.

[homedawg]

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[BoKnows]

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:beerbang: Even the bumper sticker party can understand this one....I think:beer2:

[BoKnows]

What do you think the odds are that someone in the liberal media will challenge wild woman Pelosi’s remarks yesterday and remind her that the Republicans have been trying to slow down Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae’s growth and bring them under tighter regulation, only to be rebuffed by the Democrats on numerous occasions? Isn’t it ironic that moron Barney Frank campaigned the loudest against any regulations on them and he was on the podium when Pelosi spewed her ill-timed attack yesterday? Do you think anyone will call him on it? How about the bill McCain co-sponsored in 2006 to regulate Freddie and Fannie. All the democrats were against it because it inhibited some people from being able to own their own home, even if they could not afford it. Obama, of course, was not present for the vote. He was preparing his campaign effort. The liberal media provide the Democrats any platform they want to spew their attacks with no worry of being accountable for repeated contradictions and hypocrisy. You gotta love the system.

[BIGBALLER]

YouTube - Glenn Beck: Are You Paying Attention? Obama, ACORN Racists—t

[BIGBALLER]

YouTube - Shocking!—Democrats Trying to Give Bailout Money to Obama's Owner ACORN

[BIGBALLER]

YouTube - Explosive Video, Fannie Mae CEO calling Obama and the Dems the "Family" and "Conscience" of Fannie Mae