As of now the 65....

[EdwardHaney]

USD isn't deserving. They have an RPI of 100, they went 1-3 vs. STM and the ZAGS this year and then what the **** with playing the tourney on their home floor. They won a conference tourney on their home freeking floor. They have no business being in at the expense of an Arizona/Oregon/Ohio State etc.......

I guess the real problem is that the conference tourney shouldn't have been on their home floor. I don't really agree with that either, unless it alternates between the 10 schools each year and this happened to be their year to host it, but I don't think that's how the system works. USD wouldn't have gotten an at-large bid obviously, but I don't think they were a terrible team by any means.

[CuseFan10]

USD isn't deserving. They have an RPI of 100, they went 1-3 vs. STM and the ZAGS this year and then what the **** with playing the tourney on their home floor. They won a conference tourney on their home freeking floor. They have no business being in at the expense of an Arizona/Oregon/Ohio State etc.......

I agree, USD is not deserving. They got a gift getting to play at home. The worst part is, New Mexico is going to do the same thing and steal another bid because they are playing at home. It's simple to solve this **** if you ask me:

ACC, Pac 10, SEC, Big East, Big 12, Big 10, A-10, CONF USA, MWC, MVC all play neutral site conference tourneys at their designated arenas that they all already have except the stupid MWC.

Every other ****ty conference plays their games at the home team site until the semifinals and the semis are played at the #1 seed (Horizon League model). You should be rewarded for winning the regular season title, not submarined. And if conferences like the WAC, MAC and CAA which have a shot at two teams most years want to do the neutral site thing, that's up to them b/c all 3 of them can get away with it because attendance will be good (except maybe the WAC).

[joepa66]

JoePa and Daws - OBVIOUSLY they could get 2 if Butler or Kent St lose but as of right now they don't have two so why am I gonna count that??? Think fellas, think.

IMHO - If Kent loses they WON'T get in no matter when they lose. As long as they have the media darlings like St. Mary's and Gonzaga that they want in......Butler gets in either way, win or lose in their conference tournament. The questions I posed are more rhetorical in nature, not literal, just something to think about beyond the "proposed bracket teams".

AND, the MAC tournament is played at a neutral site, at Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland which has been the case for at least 5 years, maybe even more than that.

[Daws1089]

Flyers stop complaining about the WCC. they are moving the tourney to vegas next year sheesh. and one other thing the home court thing didnt really workout for vcu as they played in richmond i believe.

[Biff_Tannen]

San Diego won the tourney... they're in. That's it. If anything I'd tell St. Mary's tough luck. They crumbled on the road all year, if anything I think they don't deserve it. Did you notice half the stands were empty at some of those WCC games? That's because each team got half the tickets. I wouldn't worry so much about that home court thing. It helped but they didn't win cause they were at home. San Diego positioned themselves to take that conference, and it wasn't easy. Playing on back to back to back nights with a bunch of young kids on that team, I'm just going to give them a hand and wish them the best. Grier has took that team and did a 180... I like when those teams get a shot, that way you don't see the same teams every year.

[CuseFan10]

AND, the MAC tournament is played at a neutral site, at Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland which has been the case for at least 5 years, maybe even more than that.

I know that, and that's stupid. Kent State gets NO REWARD for winning the outright title. Those teams aren't good enough generally to navigate through neutral site fields, which is why my point about them rings true even more. VCU would have never lost to William and Mary at home. San Diego would have never made it out of the semis if the tournament was played in the Kennel. South Alabama would probably not have lost at home either I would guess.

The MAC is penalizing it's good teams, IMHO. So do most Mid Major who want to be majors but just aren't.

[CuseFan10]

Flyers stop complaining about the WCC. they are moving the tourney to vegas next year sheesh. and one other thing the home court thing didnt really workout for vcu as they played in richmond i believe.

There's big difference b/tw a neutral site game in Richmond and playing AT VCU. That's not a very good argument if you ask me. VCU got no reward for dominating their conference. William and Mary and George Mason are also from Virginia and can get fans there just as easily.

I think Flyers and my point is that the regular season is far more important than winning a 3 day tournament, yet these dumb Mid Major conferences can't figure that out. In actuality, they probably like it because look how many teams they have going now.

:thumbs:

[joepa66]

I think Flyers and my point is that the regular season is far more important than winning a 3 day tournament, yet these dumb Mid Major conferences can't figure that out........ :thumbs:

I agree wholeheartedly on this fact.....the MAC only has a post season tournament because the bigger conferences do, AND they like the money. Even though they haven't shattered attendance records or anything by having a tournament. What they really need to do is have MAC teams play ALL MAC teams twice, not just teams within their own division twice and teams from the other division only once! They must think that the tournament is the great equalizer and the eventual champion is the true champion.....I don't just think this way because this year it's Kent getting screwed, Keith Dambrot and Akron got screwed last season by a losing on a last second shot in the MAC tourney final!

:bang:

[FlyersFan]

It helped but they didn't win cause they were at home.

really. i played hoops for years upon years and i can tell you the same thing anyone would who ever played the game....you will shoot better in your own gym every single time because it's where you play 50% of your conference games and where you practice shooting every single day. no different than a golfer who plays the same course 2x a day and can shoot a 71 at his country club but you take him to your course he has played 1x and he shoots an 85. Just like you said, STM played better at home all year, so how are they rewarded by finishing ahead of USD but having to play there on the road....:dunno:

system is flawed and it needs to be changed.

and yeah, i think cuse summed up the points that were trying to be made here. KENST SHOULD get the title game at their place and IMO, the conference winner shouldn't have to play until the semis TOPS. There is no reward for KENTST who put together a great season in that conference. They play the same amount of games as the 4th place team and play 'em all in the same place. they might as well have not beaten AKR the other day and finished 4th. And yeah, as cuse said, there isn't enough distinction between these teams to navigate a 12 teams field on a neutral site. Just rediculous.

[joepa66]

THANKS CUSE!


I love these kinds of threads, and even though this is a good one, it hasn't even reached its' potential as yet! I'm waiting for hear from the Rider & William and Mary fans.....:thumbs:

[Nigel Tufnel]

First of all, you know I respect your opinions greatly and enjoy our banter, but the fact is you're an A-10 homer Nigel, so I don't think thats really all that "objective". I'm sure if you tried hard enough you find a way to get 4 A-10 teams in the tourney ya know? Objectively speaking, your best argument would have been that no team EVER in the A-10 has gone 8-8 and ever sniffed the NCAA Tourney. Those A-10 teams (St Joe's, URI, UMass, Dayton, and even Temple) all beat each other up and knocked themselves all out of any shot to make it. The only who wit ha gripe (And will get in IMHO) is UMass.

I also don't necessary believe Dayton is better than Saint Mary's. It's not the Gaels fault that 6 teams in their conference were an atrocity this season and they had to play each of them twice, thus decimating their SOS. Ya know?

:thumbs:

I honestly am not trying to be an A10 homer...and, God no, the A10 doesn't deserve 4 teams in the NCAA tourney. I guess I just improperly rely too much on the RPI when looking at the NCAA at large teams. I realize the committee doesn't rely on the RPI; however, there usually aren't a lot of teams with RPIs in the 30's who historically get left out of the NCAA tourney. Sure, I realize there are some...and I'll list them....

2005:
All teams with RPI's of 1-40 made the NCAA tournament.

2006:
#21...Missouri State...20-8...SOS=46....lost 1st round of conference tournament.
#30...Hofstra.............24-6...SOS=129...lost 3rd round of conference tournament.
#39 Creighton...........19-9...SOS=55....lost 1st round of conference tournament.

2007
#30...Air Force...........22-8...SOS=80....lost 1st round of conference tournament.
#36...Missouri State...21-10...SOS=42...lost 2nd round of conference tourmament.
#38...Bradley............20-12...SOS=21...lost 2nd round of conference tournament.

As of this morning, UD has an RPI of 34 and SOS=41.

UD's current RPI is 0.5904. In the past 10 seasons, the only team with an RPI above 0.5892 that got left our of the NCAA tournament was the '07 Air Force team that lost in the 1st round of their conference tournament.


Like I said, I don't think Dayton is all that...and I hope that if they beat SLU, the Musketeers crush them in the quarterfinals. But a loss to X won't hurt UD's RPI all that much. I just guess, like I said, I'm looking too much at the RPI. But I still think if UD has an RPI in the 30s, they would have a gripe.

If UMass loses in the quarterfinals, I think they will be sweating BIG TIME on Selection Sunday.

[CuseFan10]

I agree with all of that Nigel. The point I was making was kinda two-fold. One, no 8-8 A-10 (even with Wright's injury) is ever going to make the NCAA tournament, nor should they. And two, the RPI isn't the end all be all (which you astutely pointed out). Also, all those teams you listed as being left out with RPI's under 40 are basically Mid Majors - which the A-10 still technically is. Even if it is the best of them this year and traditionally a good league.

[FlyersFan]

i personally think when fully healthy that DAY is a better team than STM by a decent amount. Im tired of watching Lou Diamon Phillips miss 2 footers all game long and i think they were lucky to catch ORE when they did.....KENTST kicked the **** out of them on their home floor. But if you use that Argument then Arizona should be about a 3 seed as they had probably some of the most significant injuries of any team in consideration with Bayliss gone for about 5 games and then Wise for about 8.

I seriously think there are going to be some Major conference teams left out at the expense of some ****ty teams who had no business near the tourney (like maybe a MTSU, USD, CLEST etc...)and i will be curious to hear if there is a lot of talk about the WCC 3 bids and the SunBelt's 2 bids and who knows...maybe the Horizon's 2 if BUT doesn't win tonight...and that is not a foregone conclusion they will. I will all but guarantee there are about 4-5 schools out of Arizona, Oregon, ASU, Ohio State, somebody from the BigEast etc....who has a legit gripe.

Really think the selection crew needs to start paying attention to certain conferences maxing out their bid numbers and that's it. They always say they don't look at how many teams come from a conference, but i think you have to start. Just can't have 2 bids from a horrible Sun Belt and 3 bids from an atrocious WCC conference....and maybe 2 from a Horizon league........

[Nigel Tufnel]

Agree on all points, Cuse. I'm just glad I shut things down early this year. Trying to cap/predict the A10 this year would have been virtually impossible. The same SLU team that scores 20 points @ GW, later beats UMass, beats that same GW team by 20+ the 2nd time, wins @ St. Joe's and turns around and loses at home to St. Bonaventure. That's pretty much the way the entire A10 went all season. The meltdowns of St. Joe, URI and Dayton have been crazy. I think I'm most disappointed in St. Joe's. With Calathes, Nivens, Carr and Ferguson in that lineup, they should have done much, much better.

Thank God I had the sense to walk away. All the capping in the world (and I realized I didn't have nearly enough time this year) couldn't have helped with the A10 this year.

GL to your Orange tomorrow.

[CuseFan10]

VCU is in!!!!!!

This is tough to swallow..... VCU, Ohio State, and Kent State REJOICE!!!!!

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