ufc 71 and beyond lines

**BlazerAndy** · 04-20-2007, 11:46 PM

Chuck Liddell at -260 looks too good to be true, which may actually mean that it is. I was thinking It would be at Liddell -600 seeing as he is pretty much the face of the UFC. Is Jackson for real? To be frank I really don't keep up with the sport as much as I should especially if I'm betting on it. Hasn't Liddell been pretty much -600 on all his most recent fights? **** I know he couldn't have been -260 against Ortiz, Tito was due for another ass-whoopin'. I realize Rampage beat him before but Chucky boy has avenged every loss hasn't he? And when's the last time Chuck lost anyway?

**EddieP** · 04-21-2007, 01:14 AM

the question is when is the last time chuck beat anybody good? besides randy that is............. depends on which rampage comes to fight........if he brings it,,i think he has a good chance to beat chuck....... wouldnt it be cool to see rampage pick chuck up and power slam him.. if chuck doesnt get the early ko it might be a long night for him......... rampage didnt just beat chuck he crushed him!!!,im sure chuck has been waiting a long time for this fight........see what happens either way i wouldnt bet alot on this fight,really want to see chuck vs prides best aka rua,henderson,thierry, the old wandy silva............im not a big chuck fan,,by years end i dont see him with the belt....even been talk of him fighting mirko,,, if chuck is smart which i think he is,,he wont ever agree to a fight with mirko.........he wont have to worry about a good sprawl or even be taken to the ground,,,,,,,,,mirko would take his head off standing..........just my thoughts after the last few cards nothing would surprise me,,, i love mma:beerbang:

**BlazerAndy** · 04-22-2007, 12:17 AM

Matt Hughes is going to destroy that guy. Hughes will probably be at +800.

**EddieP** · 04-22-2007, 01:54 PM

no way in hell matt hughes will be plus 800 lol, think you meant to say -800?? .....not gonna happen........hughes is -430 right now i dont think it will go that high............serra has a chance since his game is on the ground as well...........

**yukoncornelius** · 04-28-2007, 09:48 PM

Rampage is now +240 on BOF/betcris

That is INCREDIBLE value... And it probably is going to be even higher due to the exposure of Liddell. Fade the majority public on this one...

Quinton is a horrible matchup for Chuck. He's actually quite a good striker (watch his k1 fight), he's stronger than chuck, he can keep him on the ground, etc. Where can Chuck beat Rampage? Standing... maaybe. On the ground, hell no. Look at all of the people who have lost recently to Chuck, they did exactly what he wanted and didn't play their own game (chuck the master counterpuncher who lures people in). babalu and randy in particular. Jeremy Horn didn't even deserve to fight Liddell, weren't even in the same league. Tito looked horrible, way too tentative. Quinton is a HUGE step up in recent competition for Chuck. I'm not saying Chuck is a pushover, I actually think he is a great fighter. Great footwork, patient with his punching, and makes his opponents fall right into his hands. However, he hasn't been fully tested in a while... When Chuck gets caught out of his game, it gets ugly.

Rampage is in total control of his destiny here, I am so confident that if Quinton comes 100%, he will NOT lose. Like I said, his style presents major problems for Chuck, not to mention hes got a helluva chin. As long as Rampage isn't hesitant, and pushes the action, he'll win. Also, Quinton is all about the "cheddar" and he knows damn well that if he beats Chuck he will become an instant star in the eyes of mainstream mma fans ($$$$).

Its all about the matchup, and in this case if Rampage comes with his best, and so does Chuck, Quinton is gonna win.

If you're going to bet on this fight, you're getting no value with Chuck. I know for damn sure I'm hitting it hard with Rampage! :beerbang:

**EddieP** · 04-29-2007, 01:17 AM

value??? umm crocop was good value too at -500,, you saw what happened to him.............throw value right out the window. do agree with you in saying if rampage brings it,he has a good chance,,if he fights like his last two,he wont last one round........and you are right,chuck has not been tested in a very long time........my heart says rampage but my brain what little i have left is telling me be very careful because chuck is dangerous..........more than likely i will have both of them bet in various parlays,i wouldnt bet my first born on either one of these guys............if rampage was undefeated i would say yes maybe,,,but he has gotten his fair share of beatings,,more so than chuck has.........did you see what silva did to rampage,, or rua......btw did you see rampage vs eastman??? eastman is no chuck lidell and even got stoped by lutter,,i dont even want to think what chuck would do to lutter .......my point is its not out of the question that chuck will retain his belt..........rampage has a terrific chin, he is going to need it too,,it wont be no walk in the park.........i hope rampage wins......... if quinton comes 100 percent he has a great chance,, if he doesnt he will get ko ed.....i think the longer the fight goes the better it will be for quinton........ so the million dollar question is what jackson shows up???

**yukoncornelius** · 04-29-2007, 02:16 AM

Rampage won't get KO'd no matter what...

Throw value out the window?! WTF, betting is about VALUE. Diaz, Trigg, and Hendo at Pride 33 all had great value at about the same range (+200), and they ALL won. Lawler at Icon (which I cashed in on) had great value at an even greater number, HE WON. So you're saying neither fighter has value? How in the **** can you say Rampage doesn't have value at +240 when he made Chuck his bitch in Pride?! If you think either fighter has progressed alot since then, you're insane. If you think Chuck's so called "injury" lost it for him, thats BS as well.

Eddie - What parts of the match does Chuck have a CLEAR advantage in if they both show up....

As far as the eastman fight - even quinton said he was tentative as far as being in the UFC for the first time and it being a MUST win... it definitely showed. Theres no way in hell he shows up like that against Chuck. In regards to Matt Lindland, I don't care who is fighting him, its gonna be a damn hard fight. Lindland would be 185 lb champ in UFC. Did I see Wand break down Rampage? Yes, don't ask me what I've seen lol, I've seen it all, I'm not an MMA noob. When was the last time Chuck fought someone on Shogun or Wand's level??!?!? By the way, the rib breaking in the shogun fight is hard to even look at that fight from a clear POV. This is Chuck's hardest fight IN A WHILE... if both show up 100% rampage has more than a "good chance", I'd say its 80% / 20% in favor of Quinton. While that may seem insane, you simply can't say the matchup favors Chuck AT ALL.

I'm just trying to help some people out who don't follow UFC. If you think Chuck is a value at -200 and over, all I gotta say is good luck.

Link to the first fight for those interested - YouTube - Chuck Liddell gets his ass kicked in PRIDE!

**NittanyLions94** · 04-29-2007, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by EddieP

the question is when is the last time chuck beat anybody good? besides randy that is............. depends on which rampage comes to fight........if he brings it,,i think he has a good chance to beat chuck....... wouldnt it be cool to see rampage pick chuck up and power slam him.. if chuck doesnt get the early ko it might be a long night for him......... rampage didnt just beat chuck he crushed him!!!,im sure chuck has been waiting a long time for this fight........see what happens either way i wouldnt bet alot on this fight,really want to see chuck vs prides best aka rua,henderson,thierry, the old wandy silva............im not a big chuck fan,,by years end i dont see him with the belt....even been talk of him fighting mirko,,, if chuck is smart which i think he is,,he wont ever agree to a fight with mirko.........he wont have to worry about a good sprawl or even be taken to the ground,,,,,,,,,mirko would take his head off standing..........just my thoughts after the last few cards nothing would surprise me,,, i love mma:beerbang:

If Rampage tries to stand with Chuck he's going to get knocked out, plain and simple, no way around it. Nobody can strike with Chuck, I'd have to think twice betting Emilianinko over Chuck in a stand-up fight. If it goes to the ground then Chuck is screwed because he just simply doesn't fight there, and I mean at all. His take down defense is just so good that he didn't even let an experienced grappler like Tito take him there, which was impressive. There's a reason Chuck has avenged all his previous losses, he is a smarter fighter than pretty much anyone else out there and learns from his losses. If you watch that last Liddell/Jackson fight, Chuck looks very out of his element. There was something weird about it and I don't expect that to be the case this time. With that said, I think the value still is with Rampage, but I wouldn't bet either side. But I think we've seen what happens when Pride fighters come to the octagon and think they will dominate. Mirko almost lost his ability to walk after stepping in with Gabriel Gonzaga, and to be honest, that fight was never close.

Chuck doesn't have to fight Mirko, why would he? He would be severely outweighed. And Mirko has to get back in to the contender picture before he worries about having Dana hand picking him matches again. He was basically handed a shot at Randy Couture and got KO'd in R1 against a guy that had no business being in a #1 contender fight. Nothing against Gonzaga, he was impressive, but he is still below guys like Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. And Wanderlei Silva was a bit overrated IMO, and was another reason I still think UFC > Pride. He came over and got tapped out by Tito fairly easily and never did anything in UFC.

I dunno, betting the favorite in these is never a good idea in my eyes. In a fight anyone can win so laying things like -250 and above is stupid.

**yukoncornelius** · 04-29-2007, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by NittanyLions94

If Rampage tries to stand with Chuck he's going to get knocked out, plain and simple, no way around it. Nobody can strike with Chuck, I'd have to think twice betting Emilianinko over Chuck in a stand-up fight. If it goes to the ground then Chuck is screwed because he just simply doesn't fight there, and I mean at all. His take down defense is just so good that he didn't even let an experienced grappler like Tito take him there, which was impressive. There's a reason Chuck has avenged all his previous losses, he is a smarter fighter than pretty much anyone else out there and learns from his losses. If you watch that last Liddell/Jackson fight, Chuck looks very out of his element. There was something weird about it and I don't expect that to be the case this time. With that said, I think the value still is with Rampage, but I wouldn't bet either side. But I think we've seen what happens when Pride fighters come to the octagon and think they will dominate. Mirko almost lost his ability to walk after stepping in with Gabriel Gonzaga, and to be honest, that fight was never close.

Chuck doesn't have to fight Mirko, why would he? He would be severely outweighed. And Mirko has to get back in to the contender picture before he worries about having Dana hand picking him matches again. He was basically handed a shot at Randy Couture and got KO'd in R1 against a guy that had no business being in a #1 contender fight. Nothing against Gonzaga, he was impressive, but he is still below guys like Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. And Wanderlei Silva was a bit overrated IMO, and was another reason I still think UFC > Pride. He came over and got tapped out by Tito fairly easily and never did anything in UFC.

I dunno, betting the favorite in these is never a good idea in my eyes. In a fight anyone can win so laying things like -250 and above is stupid.

LOL

I don't mean to disrespect, but you are FAR overstating Chuck's abilities. Fedor (its emElianEnko btw) would beat THE **** out of Chuck.... don't be stupid. Stand up fight? If chuck is such a stellar stand up fighter, why isn't he a boxer where there is more money to be made? You act like he can't be beat on the feet. Chuck could beat Mirko standing? HAHAHAH Mirko was in k1, if yout hink mma fighters have the technique of k1, you're crazy. Crocop does not severely outweigh him... hes about 220, I even think he could make 205 if he really tried. On another note, your so called overhyped Wanderlei stepped up and fought Mirko twice, he didn't give a **** about weight (although he actually ended up weighing more due to not cutting).

Watch his first fight with Randy. Hell, as far as taking him down, watch his 1st fight with Randy again. Couture actually uses the proper game plan. Rampage NEGATED Chuck's stand up in the first fight. Why did CHuck look "out of place", because Rampage's style threw him out of his game. Rampage beat Cyril Abidi (who is NO joke) in K1, and beat him decisively. TITO is someone who was overrated and looked like **** against Chuck (even though he did win round 2).... Wand is overrated? Ok, if Chuck fought the string of fighters wanderlei did, he would be torn up as well. I would've lvoed to see Chuck go to Pride's open weight grand prix. Not saying he wouldn't which is why Chuck is cool, he wnats to fight the best, but his contractual obligations have held him back.

I really like Chuck, but his hype sickens me.... It would be much easier to state what his abilities were if he had been fighting the top of the top competition (in recent years, Pride's 205 class wouldve RAN A ****IN TRAIN on the UFC). If you disagree with this, I don't know what to tell you but get a clue. Wand, Shogun, Lil Nog, Arona, Overeem, Hendo if he fights up in weight, Nakamura, Rampage.

We'll see the answer to this argument on May 26th, and I will be DAMNED if Chuck KO's Rampage standing. I can't wait for the odds to shift even more (due to Chuck hype/nuthugging/invincibility). Chuck hasn't proven he is as incredible as people like you make him out to be, until he does, I'm not going to hug on him.

**NittanyLions94** · 04-29-2007, 10:20 PM

I may not have written what I intended to, let me try again. The value is with Rampage, due to the fact that he is one of the only guys who has a chance to stand with Chuck. But I still think it would be a mistake to stand with him. Tito was scared of Chuck, you could tell just by watching.

Gabriel Gonzaga had fought nobody, and was beaten by the only decent figher he had faced(Werdum), and he came out and dominated a fight against Cro Cop. I was a bigger Cro Cop supporter than most, but he lost a fight that was set in front of him by Dana White with full intentions of getting him to a match with Couture. Cro Cop never had a shot in that thing, Gonzaga came out the aggressor and ended it in R1, simple as that. Fighting in the cage and fighting with ropes are two totally different things, and nobody will tell me differently. I think Pride and UFC are very different in the strategies one must use. So I don't think you can really say because Rampage beat Liddell in Pride that he will in turn beat him in UFC, IMO it doesn't work like that.

I think Fedor Emelianenko is the best HWT in the world and would dominate the UFC, as do many others. Then again, those are the same peopel whom thought Mirko Cro Cop would dominate UFC as well.

Nobody is going to see eye to eye on every fight.

And to say that the real money is in boxing is stupid. Everyone knows that the UFC is the new wave and boxing is falling by the wayside. I'm a big boxing fan and I have come to grips with it. People want to see "fighting" not boxing anymore.

**yukoncornelius** · 04-29-2007, 11:06 PM

Big money still is in boxing though right now....

If Rampage is smart he'll test out striking, then slam Chuck down and use his aggressive GnP. This is the biggest fight of Quinton's life, and you can be sure he will be ready for it. Quinton has faught in a cage many times, he trains in one all the time (he is well prepared for whatever venue he fights in).

This is what I don't understand about Liddell fanboys almost disregarding the fight in Pride. What new skills does Chuck have to warrant him being -300 right now (and in the coming weeks, probably -350), besides decisively beating consecutive fighters taht really were not in his league, aside from Randy? Tito was not ready for Chuck in their recent fight. Chuck tried to fight the same in the first fight as he has recently. THe difference is his recent MATCHUPS and how they played out. On the ground, if Rampage is on the bottom, do you not think he has the power to get out of the situation? Rampage has the advantage on the ground, and better GnP, and liddell will not submit him. Standing up, Chuck has a slight advantage but its not anywhere NEAR what the Chuck nuthuggers think it is. Quinton suffers in the clinch with standup, and we all know Chuck aint gonna clinch. On the other hand, rampage has good defense standing, and has good movement and striking. Chuck is awesome at standing, believe me I'm not saying he isn't. What I'm saying is Chuck's standup is overrated and Rampage's is underrated by Chuck fanboys. On another note, it isn't even about matching Chuck strike for strike, its being active to the point where Chuck can't counterpunch and stalk. Shogun, Wanderlei could both do this if we ever saw them fight, and Rampage can too (and he has).

As far as Mirko... weird stuff happens. Randleman should've never beat him their first fight and killed him. Crocop came in much over confident, and we all saw him get KTFO. THe mirko we saw in OWGP was on an ABSOLUTE TEAR, and if that crocop showed up against gonzaga, Gabriel wouldve gotten killed. Serra beat GSP, and they're not even in the same calibur of skill in my opinion. Takimoto beat Zelg Galesic... it happens. What this has to do with the Chuck/Rampage fight is beyond me.

**EddieP** · 04-30-2007, 12:56 AM

ok let me say it again,,if rampage comes to fight he has a chance to win,,if he fights like his last two outtings he will get ko ed.........chuck hasnt fought anybody of late,, i will agree with that,,but his fights with randy you cant take away from him,,,, randy just happens to be the hv champ right now,i didnt see him beating silvia the way he did,,he dominated in that fight.......i do think chucks days are numbered, and i also think rua would give him alot of trouble, not to mention this thierry sensation which in my mind will beat any light heavy in mma right now.........who is gonna beat that guy???he knocked nog the **** out,,and he just decapitated arona for heavens sake........... please dont ever confuse me with a chuck nut hugger,,because im not a chuck fan at all,in fact i dont like him very much,, but lets give credit where its due he is the champ.........im not crazy about either side in this one, i will be rooting for rampage but i wont be betting the farm on it....just hard for me too see another main event dog cleaning house.... yukon for your sake i hope your right:beerbang:

**yukoncornelius** · 04-30-2007, 02:23 AM

I mean I'm not putting ALOT of money on it, but I'd be crazy to not put a fair amount on him. In my case, 5-10 units....

Soko has been very fortunate lately... Arona was an idiot with what he did....

Watch Soko's fight late last year in WEC, he sucked, to say he can beat any 205'er right now is absurd.

Rampage WILL NOT GET ko'd. Wanderlei KO'd him and that was after repeated knee after knee after knee of punishment. For the record, a knee to the head hurts ALOT worse than fists. I just don't see it happening. If RAMPAGE comes to fight 100%, he has more than a "chance" to win. Actually he does have a chance, you're right, like an 85% chance. lol

MMA betting is analyzing the matchups, just like all other sports, mma math doesn't work. In this case, I'm confident about the matchup, given the odds, I love it.

War RAMPAGE, the chain is gonna look good with the belt!

**BlazerAndy** · 04-30-2007, 11:24 AM

Like I said before I'm not the biggest UFC expert but I went back and watched that Liddell/Rampage matchup and that is not the same Chuck. He is a completely different fighter now. And the electricity he brings when he comes into the ring is unexplainable. He is the face of the UFC and I fully expect him to knock Rampage out. Liddell is a modern-day Mike Tyson!! :gulp: :gulp:

ufc 71 and beyond lines

ufc 71 and beyond lines

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