ufc 71 and beyond lines

[EddieP]

chuck is at -215 @ dimes right now...........

[No1mikefan]

Damn Guys, this post has my head spinning! There are a lot of guys in here with good knowledge of sports in gerneral and MMA. We need to put our heads together on this one. I am having a hard time with this one, being blinded by my pure HATRED for Chuck! Ive been a TITO fan since day 1. UFC 40 was like being a kid at Christmas for me, so you can obviously understand my not liking Chuck seeing as how he kicked my guys ass twice.....:bang: O.K. with that being said, why isnt chuck -400 due to popularity alone? The huge numbers of NEW mma fans only know Chuck. The sport has gotten all of this attention due to the UFC. Therefore all the new bandwagon fans who might be wagering on this fight are going to take Liddel. I would say the majority of them never heard of Rampage before his last fight and he even said that wasnt a good showing. I just see this line climbing as the public pounds Chuck. It just confuses me that the line isnt higher, makes me think that even Vegas knows they cant juice Chuck in this one? Someone else in this forum said that Quinton is all about the money, that is true. This is the biggest chance he'll ever get period! they are showing the weigh ins on ESPN news, thats huge for the sport. He takes that belt and he is RICH! the endorsements, the exposure, that is what he is in this for. I just see him doing it, he is hungry. Chuck hasn't been tested lately and as we have seen, everyone loses! I just think the law of averages + Rampages chance to grab the spotlight= the end of the ICEMAN. I am unable to rationally pick this one as I said. I will put 200 on Quinton based on my being a hater, but Im waiting to see the line coser to fight time. I would love to see some more discussion on this one. Its time for a new champ and Ramgage is going to bring a lot of excitement to the Sport as the CHAMP! If Chuck takes my money again, OH well? He's done it before and I will continue to bet against him every PPV until he loses. Ill get it back one way or another....LOL!! F%@K CHUCK LOL!!!!!!!

[yukoncornelius]

fear not no1mikefan.... Rampage is the right pick in this situation. Your post is pretty accurate too... Rampage is now only at +175 on bookmaker, which is the lowest I've seen him. As the fight gets closer, particularly like on Thursday/Friday, I'd have to think that the public is going to pound Chuck. For your and I's sake, I hope Quinton gets back up to +240. One potential hiccup might be the preview show that spike will be showing, I'm pretty sure they're gonna show their first fight back in 03 in Pride' GP... in which case people might think twice about putting it down on iceman. Lets hope they think "ehh that was 2003, Chuck is unstoppable now" and keep putting money on him :) I don't hate Chuck at all, I actually like him. Rampage though, is my favorite fighter, and it just turns out this is a great matchup for him style wise!

The "old" rampage will be present this weekend, as we've both said, he has more motivation to win this fight than ANY time in his career. As he says, he loooves the "chedda" haha.

[No1mikefan]

I agree Yukon, This fight is all about styles! Its all about how some fighters just have the number of other fighters. For me its always sucked, Holyfield had Mikes number:bang: Chuck has Tito's :bang: and all Hating aside, I just believe Rampage has Chucks. I believe it will be a war and I KNOW Chuck can beat Rampage, those two guys banging with 4 oz. gloves doesn't leave ANY room for error. Im just "banking" literaly on Rampage being hungrier! Either way its going to be one of the best MMA fights in a while and I cant wait to see it, regardless of who wins. Just hope Quinton does so I can make a little "CHEDDA" as he would say. Anyone pondering getting the PPV, DO IT! Not only is there a great main event but the rest of the card should be solid. I personally cant wait to see Kayro and Burkman. Also looking forward to Kalib Starnes vs. Chris Leben, both guys should bang and both need this win. DAMN im fired up! I think Ill go put my dog in a triangle choke.....LOL!!
Talk to you guys more before the fight!!

[yukoncornelius]

Chuck is down to -185 on bookmaker, I really can't believe the odds have shifted so much. I'm still expecting the public to start betting hard on Chuck, but damn who knows.

[No1mikefan]

Chuck is down to -185 on bookmaker, I really can't believe the odds have shifted so much. I'm still expecting the public to start betting hard on Chuck, but damn who knows.

This line has me confused as well. What numbers are you guys seeing out there for Rampage? Fricken Bodog has him at +145. That is pathetic, I have to think it will go up? Even Calin Ayre knows Rampage is going to win, cheap bastards! They juice you to death when you want a favorite and try and give you peanuts when you have the balls to take the dog! I guess thats why he has all the money and Im here trying to find the best price for a MMA wager????:nuts:

[No1mikefan]

Sorry, Calvin Ayre! correct spelling, same dickhead!

[BlazerAndy]

Liddell down to -175 on sportsbook. Can't wait to pounce on that **** if it gets low enough. I'll definitely make some plays on it regardless. No clue why everybody is pounding Rampage. IMO As Chuck says, this fight should be over in the first couple of rounds.

[yukoncornelius]

Liddell down to -175 on sportsbook. Can't wait to pounce on that **** if it gets low enough. I'll definitely make some plays on it regardless. No clue why everybody is pounding Rampage. IMO As Chuck says, this fight should be over in the first couple of rounds.

Well, the line shifted alot since the airing of Rampage All Access on Spike last night. People saw Quinton "whoop that ass" in their Pride fight, and were probably like damn this guy is serious. Hackelman (Chuck's trainer) was on beatdown radio Monday and I for one was not impressed AT ALL by him saying that Rampage isn't really a bigger threat than Chuck's past opponents (who he said were all very good). He put Jeremy Horn in the same grouping as Quinton... its like cmon man thats ridiculous. He said stylistically Quinton isnt much different than Tito... and even said Tito's striking was actually good. I"m thinking WTF man, Tito's striking sucks, and it makes Rampage look like a Boxing champ in comparison. He didn't even really mention Rampage's striking and instead talked about his wrestling and takedowns from what I remember.

Juanito and Rampage just sound WAY more prepared matchup wise. Quinton takes this, I'm more confident than ever. Jump on the chain gang and don't look back :beerbang:

[No1mikefan]

Yukon, I knew you were gonna chime in on that one. EXACTLY, I dont see where chuck and his trainer get off trying to act like Chuck is going to walk right through Rampage?? NOT going to happen. I am the biggest Tito fan your going to find and I KNOW he isnt even in the same category as Rampage when it comes to striking! Tito doesnt believe he can beat Chuck when Rampage KNOWS he can! Not to mention that Rampages Chin is about 50X better!! Bottom line is, Quinton did it once, He'll do it again! Its all mental, Tito didnt have any fire in their last fight, He didnt do **** and yet Chuck was gassed? If Tito could of survived that round, seeing as how chuck was beating the hell out of his elbows??, he could of had a real shot in the 4th and 5th. Chucks pot belly was sucking in and out like crazy! Chuck will not out stamina Rampage, and he will not outstrike him! He will look to lay back and counterpunch. Its not going to happen, I believe Rampage goes right after him, hopefully get a slam and takes the air right out of that mohawk. The first sign of Chuck gassing and rampage will close the show period! Chucks only shot is to land one of his tough man style haymakers early on, if he cant get the K.O. early, he will run out of gas. Just watch Chuck vs. Randy 1. Randy took the fight to him, got the takedowns, pounded the will right out of him, but take all this with a grain of salt as once again I am the worlds biggest Chuck "hater"! Good luck guys which ever side your on! Sat night cant get here fast enough!!!!

[EddieP]

i dont know guys,,i want rampage to win,,but im not 100% convinced he will.......... either way i wont be betting the farm on this one...seems like the public is all over rampage,maybe they know something i dont,, this wont be a repeat of the first fight you can count on that........my heart says rampage,but my head tells me chuckie.......... im going to bet them both in some small parlays........ gun to my head right now,i would pick chuck........yukon dont get mad at me,,its only an opinion and my opinion has sucked as of late:)

[BlazerAndy]

Here is an article that makes some really good points about how Chuck is a changed fighter since the first fight. I really agree witht this article:

by Mike Sloan (msloan@sherdog.com)

Muhammad Ali used to boast before fights that he was in the best shape of his life. Evander Holyfield did the same, and most recently Oscar De La Hoya has become synonymous with the "best shape of my life" cliché.

It's rare when that sort of phrase is muttered in mixed martial arts. There are too many aspects of the game to work on, and the risk of injury while training for a fight is far greater than boxers face with the old Sweet Science.

Chuck Liddell (Pictures), the Ultimate Fighting Championship's light heavyweight king, is all too familiar with the training camp injury bug, having pulled this, torqued that or sprained whatever many times in the past.

In his last bout, "The Iceman" entered the Octagon against Tito Ortiz (Pictures) with a sprained knee suffered while training for the rematch, which he won in three rounds. And prior to facing Saturday's opponent, Quinton Jackson (Pictures), in 2003, Liddell endured yet another leg injury, this time to a quad which limited his training leading up to the fight.

But as Liddell, 37, prepares for a rematch against the last man to put a blemish on his stellar record, reports are the champ's in pristine condition -- or at least that's what a trio of insiders, including his trainer John Hackleman, are saying. In fact, Liddell's camp can't stop going gaga about how splendid their fighter looks leading up to the May 26 fight.

Like Ali, Holyfield and De la Hoya … Liddell is in the best shape of his life.

"This has been the best training camp we've ever had," gushed Hackleman, Liddell's head trainer. "He didn't get one injury, one strain or one pull. Everything went perfectly: perfect sparring; perfect wrestling; perfect conditioning. He's hitting harder now than he ever has and his timing and accuracy right now is un-friggin-believable. I still can't believe it. He hits things at every angle, moving away or moving in. He always finds the chin and his weight is on target so everything's right on. It's perfect."

"That's exactly word-for-word what I was going to say," chuckled Scott Lighty, Liddell's primary sparring partner for striking. "It's funny: Every time we get in there to get ready for fights, he gets better and better. I watch his sparring and his accuracy has really improved. He really can punch from any angle. I was trying different styles on him and moving differently, but he keeps hitting me."

"He looks really good right now," concurred John Lewis (Pictures), a longtime Liddell coach and friend. "His body's tight, his abs are tight and with those strong abs he's in really good shape. He's trained really hard. He's positive. He's relaxed as usual, so yes, he's definitely in top shape."

The absence of the injury bug aside, part of the reason Liddell might look so fantastic is that this is the first fight since his rubber match with multiple-time UFC champion Randy Couture (Pictures) that "The Iceman" has truly gotten up for an opponent. It could also be suggested that this rematch with "Rampage" is the one fight he's coveted more than anything else, a chance to wipe the slate clean. Or in other words, good old fashioned revenge.

"When Chuck trains for revenge fights, he's extremely focused," said Lighty, a professional kickboxer known mostly for his tenure with the K-1 organization. "He's always focused with other fights but there's always just a little more with these types of fights because he just can't stand to lose. He trains with just a little bit more of an edge and you can see him working every possible move that Quinton can do against him."

Lewis agreed to a point, but also suggested that in the time since Liddell's first encounter with Jackson, almost four years, the San Luis Obispo, Calif. fighter has grown tenfold.

"Chuck's a different guy than when he was in those days," Lewis said. "His training regimen is very, very fine-tuned now compared to how it was back then. He's beaten a lot of great champions since then, which has built his confidence mentally to know how good he really is. I think he's a whole different individual than he was back then. His training wasn't the best in those days -- not that he didn't train or have good training, it's just that his training overall, from his dieting to his conditioning regiment to everything as a whole, has improved greatly. Everything is fine-tuned and everybody on the team does their part. And he's not even the same guy today. You can't even compare that fight and that training."

"He's much different, as he's improved leaps and bounds more than probably anybody out there right now just in his overall skills, power and conditioning," added Hackleman. "I don't think that first fight was an aberration, but I don't think it's going to happen again. It's a whole different Chuck. Let me put it that way: I can't say that first fight was an aberration because then are all of Chuck's knockouts aberrations as well? It's just like how Chuck got beaten by Randy that first time. Everybody knows that would never happen again. Chuck's a different fighter now and it's mostly because of how his training is different."

Liddell has been on a strict diet and worked strenuously on his conditioning, something that plagued him in the back-to-back losses to Couture and Jackson in 2003.

While Team Liddell wouldn't specify what minor-yet-massive adjustments were made, it's safe to assume that if one compared film of Liddell's training from before anyone had heard of SpikeTV to today, the difference would be akin to mixed martial arts pre- and post-The Ultimate Fighter.

"I don't like to go into specifics about the training," said Hackleman. "Let's just say that Chuck is a changed man and it'll show against ‘Rampage.' He just gets better and better and that's mainly because of how his training has improved."

And that is the reason why this fight is so intriguing.

Both fighters have changed since they first locked horns inside the PRIDE ring in Japan. Liddell hasn't lost since and has laid out opponents like kitchen tile. He bounced back from defeat by dismantling Ortiz and Vernon White, and then swiped the title from Couture by knocking him out cold in the first round. To say Liddell has been on a tear would be an understatement.

The same can't be said about Jackson. The boisterous fighter from Memphis has tasted defeat thrice, bested by former PRIDE 205-pound king Wanderlei Silva (Pictures) on two occasions and once by Mauricio Rua (Pictures).

Some argue that Jackson has seen his best days, but those close to Liddell don't agree.

"I hear that a lot, but to be honest whenever I talk about ‘Rampage,' and this might sound weird or that I'm talking about one of my own fighters, but I love ‘Rampage,'" admitted Hackleman. "I think he's a great fighter, a great guy. If he wasn't fighting Chuck I wish I was training him because I love him. I don't think anything has happened to him. He just fought great fighters. I don't think he's gotten bad. I think it's just that his level of opposition has gone up. He's done well, but there are certain people who have beaten him. I don't believe he is washed up or anything like that at all."

Lewis agreed that Jackson is not a flash in the pan. Like Hackleman, Lewis thinks Jackson is just as dangerous, just as fierce as he's ever been, and to think this fight will be a walk in the park for Liddell would be foolhardy.

"Quinton is a very tough guy," stated Lewis, a UFC veteran. "He definitely is a worthy opponent for Chuck right now and he's certainly not shot like some people believe. He's a very strong individual. His hands and his striking have really come a long way and I consider him a real striker now, and he's won his last few fights. He's also hard to take down. He's very athletic and agile, so I think he's definitely a tough match in general for anybody, including Chuck."

Toughness and ability aside, everybody who has worked tirelessly with the defending light heavyweight champ is confident that their guy will triumph Saturday inside the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. Liddell's firing on all cylinders and has battered his sparring partners like slabs of meat.

"I think ‘Rampage' is going to put up a great fight and it's going to be a war," started Hackleman, "but I just think Chuck has a little too much firepower at this point. He's so focused and like I said, Chuck has never looked this perfect."

"It's insane to see Chuck train and train alongside him," added Lighty, who hopes to follow in his training partner's footsteps as he plunges headfirst into MMA, possibly in the late summer. "It's not like Quinton's all about the fame and trying to hype up the media and when he gets into the ring he's a total pussy. He brings it; he comes ready to fight. He always comes ready for a war. But with how great Chuck looks, I just don't see ‘Rampage' beating him. I just don't see it happening."

On Saturday night, the world will find out whether Liddell's "perfect" training camp will equate to another highlight reel knockout, or if he'll wind up being more like De La Hoya and fall flat after being in the "best shape of his life."

And Jackson, the only man Liddell has not been able to beat, will find out better than anybody else.

[Guest]

Liddell/Rampage

I don't think it will go up. As a matter of fact, it's been going down. Believe it or not, people are betting on Rampage. Liddell was -215 3 days ago, then -195 2 days ago, and now he's at -175. Crazy huh? They're talking about the same thing over at the mmaunderdogs forum boards. I wonder if Liddell will actually go lower than 175?!?!?

KB

[BlazerAndy]

down to 170 on sportsbook

[BlazerAndy]

back up to 175 on sportsbook
5dimes it's at 195
184 on Pinnacle

Can't WAIT for this fight. Definitely putting money on Chuck and thinking about a 2 parlay with Chuck and Kalib Starnes over Chris Leben. Any opinions on that one?